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 This image was disqualified from the Wildlife V challenge.
The perfect pose
The perfect pose
william88


Photograph Information Photographer's Comments
Challenge: Wildlife V (Advanced Editing VII)
Camera: Canon EOS-7D
Lens: Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
Date: Oct 31, 2010
Galleries: Macro, Birds
Date Uploaded: Oct 31, 2010

 It was like this . I used clone stamp to fix the very left end. I thought the clone stamp is always the legal tool. Everybody be careful next time when you use clone stamp.
Disqualification Details
You may not use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as lens flare or motion) that didn't already exist in your original capture.

Statistics
Views since voting: 4700
Views during voting: 443
Comments: 44
Favorites: 10 (view)

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AuthorThread
 02/21/2011 06:57:02 AM
William, this is a great shot, but not for DPC challenges. It's pretty clear in the rules: you have to use the image area as you shot it. Part of the challenge is getting everything in the shot that you wanted. Your cloning took an near-miss and changed it to perfectly framed.
 11/22/2010 09:24:22 PM
William, sorry about your DQ--it doesn't reflect poorly on this quality shot. The DQ is not specifically for cloning the wing tip. You extended the canvas on the left side and made new "image area". This is forbidden. You can never add image area to any of the four sides of the canvas.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/22/2010 04:16:51 PM
You guys misunderstood my key point which is "what's the consequence of too many limits?". It will affect the whole community not just me. I didn't even send any message to SC to appeal for this shot.

Please do not distort my words, I didn't say SC being cruel to this specific shot or not. "Cruel DQs" are totally different words from your "Cruel SCs". You know that. And again I should emphasize my key point is the overall consequence of "cruel rules, cruel DQs and cruel votes", you probably know the consequence already by your own observation over the average number of entries for recent challenges. If you are the owner of a community website, do you think it's a good trend for you?

I didn't compare and say the two DQs were similar or anything (though they were DQed by the same rule), I put that link just for your convenience to read what I have said on 11/09/2010. I just didn't want to type all those words again. That's all. If you guys dislike this convenience, I can remove the link.

You may consider it as a joke when I sang that song. If a boat is sinking and both you and me are on the boat, I will team up with you to repair and save it instead of let it sink.

Originally posted by senor_kasper:
Originally posted by william88:
.................... I was so excited and reluctant to give up this shot.


You didn't have to give it up at all! you could have just placed it in your portfolio, or entered it in 1x (for free) or the site you gave a link to

Originally posted by william88:
.................... As I understood from another rule in the advanced editing, using clone stamp to fix minor imperfection is legal and I think that should be encouraged if the shot is rare.

The rule actually states: "clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections within any capture used.", it is a bit hard to interpret that as allowing for cloning in non existing objects. It is even harder to accept that such practice should be encouraged despite the clearly written rule.

Originally posted by william88:
.................... I didn't create any new feature, I just repair the imperfection.


Now, you are a most talented photographer and have enjoyed great success in this site, including yet another ribbon last night. With that in mind, your attempt at justifying your violation of the rule sounds disingenuous. As to why you would attempt a defense and accuse the SC of being cruel is even more puzzling, do you REALLY think you did not create a wing tip and a strip of background that were not there? The analogy with Enzo's picture is not even close.

Please tell me you were joking and may regain respect for you.
11/22/2010 06:54:58 AM
Originally posted by william88:
.................... I was so excited and reluctant to give up this shot.


You didn't have to give it up at all! you could have just placed it in your portfolio, or entered it in 1x (for free) or the site you gave a link to

Originally posted by william88:
.................... As I understood from another rule in the advanced editing, using clone stamp to fix minor imperfection is legal and I think that should be encouraged if the shot is rare.

The rule actually states: "clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections within any capture used.", it is a bit hard to interpret that as allowing for cloning in non existing objects. It is even harder to accept that such practice should be encouraged despite the clearly written rule.

Originally posted by william88:
.................... I didn't create any new feature, I just repair the imperfection.


Now, you are a most talented photographer and have enjoyed great success in this site, including yet another ribbon last night. With that in mind, your attempt at justifying your violation of the rule sounds disingenuous. As to why you would attempt a defense and accuse the SC of being cruel is even more puzzling, do you REALLY think you did not create a wing tip and a strip of background that were not there? The analogy with Enzo's picture is not even close.

Please tell me you were joking and may regain respect for you.

  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/20/2010 09:51:30 PM
Great job on the edit though... :)
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/20/2010 09:51:12 PM
I reckon there's a big difference between mine and yours in that you added a wingtip. I simply did a selective desaturation which I thought was in the rules. Mine was simply a black and white layer over a colour layer and a mask to reveal the colour. I am sorry about your dq William, they are not nice. :(
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/16/2010 03:09:25 PM
I have deleted about 80 percent of all my hummingbird shots after each shooting session. There are 2296 hummingbird photos remain in my hard drive. That mean in about 11480 shots, there is only one shot look exactly straight into lens. To me, it's very rare chance. I was so excited and reluctant to give up this shot. That's why I had tried my best to repair the minor imperfection. As I understood from another rule in the advanced editing, using clone stamp to fix minor imperfection is legal and I think that should be encouraged if the shot is rare. I didn't create any new feature, I just repair the imperfection.
My another shot here was also a rare chance because it is usually very hard to focus when there are leaves or flowers behind humer and its beak is not aligned to a flower.
Now both of my ribboned hummingbirds end up like this due to the conflicting rules. What should I say? It's not worth doing any effort for dpc.
As I mentioned before in this killer shot (DQed by the same rule). The consequence of too many rules and cruel DQ plus a broken voting system is making the site less attractive than other photography communities. But what can we do? all I can do is let it sink, let it sink, let it sink. Oh, sorry about the typo. It's the season of let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

You can do almost unlimited things on a real large community site like this one.

A paid member has a dedicated customizable homepage and can even host a group and contests. How dpc can do to beat them?

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 20:42:08.
 11/16/2010 11:08:43 AM
Originally posted by coryboehne:
What a shame! So sorry about your DQ... So what image area did you extend anyway???


The area to the left of his left wing - originally the wing appeared to just get clipped by the edge of the frame - afterwards the shot was symmetrical.

Hard to argue that the shot wasn't clearly altered (and so against the rules) - but I agree that the remedial work was first class - as is the image itself.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/16/2010 10:27:35 AM
wtf! no way. I would say the rules must be changed. Amazing shot nevertheless.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/15/2010 12:19:22 PM
After seeing your original file, you did a really sweet job in photoshop. Pity it was outside the rules, and got DQ'd. Does not take away from the fact that it's a great photo and was expertly "improved".
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/14/2010 08:59:06 AM
What a shame! So sorry about your DQ... So what image area did you extend anyway???
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/13/2010 01:56:14 PM
This is insane. Just impossible. Congrats.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/12/2010 04:37:59 AM
Originally posted by william88:
Haha! right! I should try my best to make everything symmetrical and submit to websites other than dpc.

Actually I noticed the feathers on his chest aren't symmetrical either.

:-p
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/11/2010 12:00:00 AM
mindblowing
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/09/2010 05:18:55 PM
Amazing capture as always! Beautiful. Congratulations.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/09/2010 12:02:13 PM
This is just so amazing. Congrats on your ribbon!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/09/2010 07:57:32 AM
Congrats !
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/09/2010 05:27:27 AM
perfect indeed..huge congrats on the beautiful image and the ribbon!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/08/2010 07:55:31 PM
Originally posted by bohemka:
Why are the flowers on the left not balanced with the flowers on the right?

Sorry. Was trying to find a flaw. I'd get into details but I'll leave it at this: Outstanding.


Haha! right! I should try my best to make everything symmetrical and submit to websites other than dpc.
 11/08/2010 11:34:41 AM
Congrats! Amazing capture!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/08/2010 09:59:44 AM
Such a great capture - congrats on the ribbon
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/08/2010 09:29:03 AM
Congrats William....a 10 from me. Glorious image!!!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/08/2010 05:45:26 AM
Incredible symmetry William.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 10:37:48 PM
Brilliant shot. A deserved ribbon as usual
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 09:40:29 PM
This is just AWESOME !!!! Huge congrats on the ribbon William!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 08:34:01 PM
Perfect, just simply perfect
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 08:01:59 PM
amazing image...congrats!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 07:17:37 PM
Very unusual view of a hummingbird, which we almost always see sideways, not head-on. 'Grats on the ribbon!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 07:11:46 PM
Beautiful.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 07:04:50 PM
Congrats on the red!! What an incredible shot! Beautifully done.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 Comments Made During the Challenge
11/07/2010 03:14:50 PM
WHOA.. THIS IS BEAUTIFUL! NO VOTE JUST COMMENT BUT I WOULD GIVE IT A 10.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/07/2010 01:20:44 PM
Wow! An amazing shot! I know how hard it is to freeze a humming bird's wings - haven't managed it yet. Perfect stop action and I can't imagine how you got the humming bird to face you! The bokeh is pleasing and the colors are fabulous. My pick for blue. Even in a free study this shot would do very well. Not a fan of the border though.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/06/2010 07:49:42 AM
Why are the flowers on the left not balanced with the flowers on the right?

Sorry. Was trying to find a flaw. I'd get into details but I'll leave it at this: Outstanding.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/05/2010 09:23:50 AM
magnificent! Love the background, too. (not voting in this challenge.)

Ok. So I have a very happy score going in this challenge -- so I thought I'd have some fun and guess which photos were going to be my greatest competition. There are 6 photos that worry me greatly. And this is one! What an incredible capture! I'm not voting in this competition, but this would have been a 9 or 10. Good luck!!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/04/2010 09:11:39 PM
The perfect picture. 10
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/04/2010 01:10:31 PM
Wow
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/03/2010 02:49:28 PM
10
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/03/2010 07:57:44 AM
Wow, great capture. 8
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/03/2010 01:59:13 AM
fantastic shot :)
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/01/2010 05:17:02 PM
I have gotten tired of humming bird shots, but this is really well done 8
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/01/2010 11:16:03 AM
this lil guy is perfectly posed. 7!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/01/2010 05:48:16 AM
Darned hummingbirds are such showoffs!
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 11/01/2010 02:38:05 AM
possible winner here. great shot, so vibrant.
  Photographer found comment helpful.
 10/31/2010 10:44:30 PM
I'm only 10 images into voting so far but I'm already looking at a ribbon finishing shot. This is fantastic! 10 and fav.
  Photographer found comment helpful.


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