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06/04/2004 06:53:43 PM · #1 |
Hey guys, I've been viewing this site for awhile now and your photographs are spectacular and really inspirational. I take photographs of tunnels, storm sewers, bridges and abandoned buildings and maybe I'll put some of my work up on the site later.
Anyway, I don't know if any of you guys have heard of the MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority)'s proposed ban on photography and cinematography in the New York City subway system, but the threat is real- the police already have been harrassing people/tourists/railfans about taking pictures in the subway, sometimes detaining people and questioning them.
There's going to be a rally in protest of the photography ban on Sunday, June 6th. Basically, everyone who shows up (we have alerted the press already and a probable high turnout of people) will ride around the subway system taking photos of whatever they please. We'll be meeting up at 1 PM at the old ticket booth in the Grand Concourse of Grand Central Terminal, so if you're in NYC or live here, it'll be great if you stopped by.
Hope to see you there! |
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06/04/2004 06:57:22 PM · #2 |
Good to see you guys taking action, wish I could come up and help support! Good luck.
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06/04/2004 07:47:06 PM · #3 |
Just say you demand the right to shoot back ...
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06/04/2004 08:12:43 PM · #4 |
| I can see the headlines now, "Photographers shoot, Police shoot back." |
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06/04/2004 08:14:01 PM · #5 |
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06/04/2004 08:42:00 PM · #6 |
sounds great i live in park slope, brooklyn I'll try to be there
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06/04/2004 08:54:57 PM · #7 |
I don't there in NYC, however, if it's the national interests of security of the US Nation. Hold off on any photos shoots....Those subways will be still there after all......I don't think it's about no having freedom to shoot where ever and Gov. control, but we live in a new strange world after 9/11.....give it some thought.
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06/04/2004 09:12:29 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by dustin03:
I don't there in NYC, however, if it's the national interests of security of the US Nation. Hold off on any photos shoots....Those subways will be still there after all......I don't think it's about no having freedom to shoot where ever and Gov. control, but we live in a new strange world after 9/11.....give it some thought. |
Perhaps you should explain why you say this. I "assume" you mean that the photographers could be taking images that would help identify weaknesses in the subway system, or physical properties of tracks, cars, etc? Or am I missing the point?
Assuming that's what you meant, you make an excellent point. In times like these we may need to give up some personal rights for the better good, so to speak. But the original post said nothing more than "you may be asked a few questions." To me, ask away, I'd be glad to cooperate.
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06/04/2004 09:18:42 PM · #9 |
Go guys! It would be a shame if we couldn't see shots like this:
Good luck and I'll be checking the news and rooting for you!
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06/04/2004 09:58:26 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by dustin03:
I don't there in NYC, however, if it's the national interests of security of the US Nation. Hold off on any photos shoots....Those subways will be still there after all......I don't think it's about no having freedom to shoot where ever and Gov. control, but we live in a new strange world after 9/11.....give it some thought. |
I really hate the notion that our personal freedoms are being insiduously whittled away because of the fear from 9/11 particulalry in the wake of all the lies we've been fed regarding the Middle East conflict. If a terrorist wanted to take photos of our subway system he would use a spy camera that would likely go unnoticed by the police who are harrassing the innocent street photographers.
Stripping us of our basic liberties of freedom of speech and expression is not an answer to terrorism, it is a reaction. Photography is a very powerful tool of free expression and, more importantly, information. The folks in power know this. They had a painful lesson in the recent debacle involving the tortured Iraqui prisoners.
I continue to feel deep compassion for the people personally affected by 9/11. My nephew by marriage worked in one of those offices. He barely escaped the building, his best friend did not. Whenever I start to forget, I think of the horror he experienced that day.
Message edited by author 2004-06-05 01:59:22. |
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06/04/2004 10:11:35 PM · #11 |
Good luck guys! If we lose our freedom as photographers and citizens of the free world the terrorists WIN.
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06/04/2004 10:28:09 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by dustin03:
I don't there in NYC, however, if it's the national interests of security of the US Nation. Hold off on any photos shoots....Those subways will be still there after all......I don't think it's about no having freedom to shoot where ever and Gov. control, but we live in a new strange world after 9/11.....give it some thought. |
The world hasn´t changed since 9/11, only our perception of it. We really are the same complacent bunch we were before, except that the events of 9/11 now stand as an excuse to unburden ourselves of the responsibilities of caring for the tree of liberty.
If you really want to fight terrorism, don't give in to the mindless dogma of the "safety over liberty" ideals that are currently fueling the decision making of our elected elite.
Instead, stand tall, document your world on whatever artful canvas you can find; and then display your artwork for the betterment of yourself and society.
If we stand by and allow our freedoms to be whittled away, then the terrorists have already won. Our enemies hate our freedom, and their goal is to destroy it. Are we to allow them their victory?
Phaedrus
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion" --Edmund Burke, 1784
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06/04/2004 11:54:15 PM · #13 |
| This kind of harrasement by the NYC police are a prelude to the harrasement and civil liberties restrictions that is going to ensue in the coming months as the republican national convention approaches and will be taking place in NYC some time in the summer. The real issue here is not security from terrorism, but the right to peacefully protest political and governmental policy, which, in this presidential election year, the powers-that-be do not want the nation to see. There will be massive protests during the RNC representing political descent that the authorities are so worried about. |
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06/05/2004 12:08:19 AM · #14 |
An interesting thing happened to me not too long ago.
I was taking photos of a water treatment plant for a challenge at the time. About 20 mintues after I arrived and started taking photos the security guard showed up and inquired as to what I was doing? I explained that I thought the facility would make a nice photo. The security guard had me delete the images from the camera and detained me until the police could arrive to question me. The police arrived and I gave them the same story I gave the security guard. They advised me that the facility was a restricted access area and photos were not allowed. After they finished questioning me they advised me that I could leave. I left, not thinking anything more about it.
Fast forward 3 weeks.
I get a message from an ex co-worker telling me that an agent with the FBI is trying to contact me... I didnt think anything of it since I had previously applied for a position as a special agent, passed an intial exam, and completed a background check. I contacted the agent and she stated that she would like to meet me to ask me some questions... I thought it was an interview for the special agent position. She and another gentleman showed up at my house as planned and began asking me questions about my photography and why I was taking photos of the water treatment facility. They ask all kinds of strange questions... have you ever taken photos you weren't suppose to before, do you sell any of your photos (I said no... he proceeded to ask, why not?), do you know anyone foriegn, how do you feel about terroism, and on and on.
After asking about 100 questions they said, I think we have what we need, and left. Haven't heard from them since.
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06/05/2004 12:43:09 AM · #15 |
Were you on the grounds of the wastewater treatment plant at the time?
If not, the guard had no right to reuire you to delete the images.
-Terry
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06/05/2004 03:27:46 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by photom:
Perhaps you should explain why you say this. I "assume" you mean that the photographers could be taking images that would help identify weaknesses in the subway system, or physical properties of tracks, cars, etc? Or am I missing the point?
Assuming that's what you meant, you make an excellent point. In times like these we may need to give up some personal rights for the better good, so to speak. But the original post said nothing more than "you may be asked a few questions." To me, ask away, I'd be glad to cooperate. |
This is not a good reason for banning photography. The only people you are hurting with this are tourists and photographers. Anyone who wishes to take a subway picture for terrorism purposes could do so with a small concealed camera. You don't stop those people with a ban on public photography.
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06/05/2004 03:59:58 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by photom:
Originally posted by dustin03:
I don't there in NYC, however, if it's the national interests of security of the US Nation. Hold off on any photos shoots....Those subways will be still there after all......I don't think it's about no having freedom to shoot where ever and Gov. control, but we live in a new strange world after 9/11.....give it some thought. |
Perhaps you should explain why you say this. I "assume" you mean that the photographers could be taking images that would help identify weaknesses in the subway system, or physical properties of tracks, cars, etc? Or am I missing the point?
Assuming that's what you meant, you make an excellent point. In times like these we may need to give up some personal rights for the better good, so to speak. But the original post said nothing more than "you may be asked a few questions." To me, ask away, I'd be glad to cooperate. |
You really need to think through this idea. What next - you'll ban pen and paper on the subway - after all, someone might draw a sketch ? Maybe swarthy foreign looking types should be locked up at the entrances too - after all this is your national interests, what are a few personal rights ?
Perhaps everyone riding the subway should be forced to keep their eyes shut or wear a hood - after all they might see something useful for terrorists.
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06/05/2004 04:20:02 AM · #18 |
| I am glad that I live in South Africa. Here we take pictures of what we want when we want and do not have to worry about police harrassment / fbi involvement! |
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06/05/2004 05:37:13 AM · #19 |
It looks like terrorism worked. Our government and civil services are now terrified, and it looks like photographers are among the victims of this terror. I hope your photo march is successful!
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06/05/2004 06:02:35 AM · #20 |
It truly makes me sad that the United States is slowly moving to toward a scared, 1984 like society. I am even more amazed that so many people are willing to give up thier freedoms. We are slowly removing the basic liberties that made this country great.
The argument for this is that by just taking away the right to take pictures, it could save thousands of lives. And because the Gov't is preaching fear, the people take the bait hook, line, and sinker. I understand that we need to be vigilant, but ask yourself this: What is really going to be gained by not allowing pictures to be taken?
There is absolutely nothing that a potential terrorist could take a picture of that has not already been well documented. In this day of the internet, if a terrorist wanted information about the New York Subway, it is well mapped out, well photographed, and pretty much all the information is there. No new pictures really need be taken.
I don't think this is a giant gov't conspiracy, I just think that people have lost thier common sense. Allowing tourists to take pictures of the subway rats is not going to mean an end for our country as we know it, but NOT allowing this very well could. Protest away. I just wish I was in NYC.
drake
Message edited by author 2004-06-05 10:08:34. |
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06/05/2004 08:21:29 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by walbland:
I am glad that I live in South Africa. Here we take pictures of what we want when we want and do not have to worry about police harrassment / fbi involvement! |
Don't have to worry about a thing, unless of course you are black. I, too, am glad people can take pictures in your country. I can remember seeing pictures on the television news of police/soldiers beating, shooting and burning the homes of black South Africans as far back as the mid-60's. USA is far from perfect and I strive to make it a better place. But South Africa is not a country I'd look to emulate when it comes to human rights and individual freedoms for the masses. |
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06/05/2004 08:35:11 AM · #22 |
I think police and security are just getting to embarrassed that they cant do there job well enough with the states security cams and such, the real ones that are catching all the good stuff, crime, or loops in the system, accidents waiting to happen, ect...are photographers....
Good Luck!
Wished I could be there to help ya...
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06/05/2004 12:20:12 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Were you on the grounds of the wastewater treatment plant at the time?
If not, the guard had no right to reuire you to delete the images.
-Terry |
Apparently they owened the land I was standing on; however, there were no signs and nothing indicating that it was thier property or that it was a restricted facility.
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06/07/2004 07:43:32 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Netherworld Online:
Hey guys, I've been viewing this site for awhile now and your photographs are spectacular and really inspirational. I take photographs of tunnels, storm sewers, bridges and abandoned buildings and maybe I'll put some of my work up on the site later.
Anyway, I don't know if any of you guys have heard of the MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority)'s proposed ban on photography and cinematography in the New York City subway system, but the threat is real- the police already have been harrassing people/tourists/railfans about taking pictures in the subway, sometimes detaining people and questioning them.
There's going to be a rally in protest of the photography ban on Sunday, June 6th. Basically, everyone who shows up (we have alerted the press already and a probable high turnout of people) will ride around the subway system taking photos of whatever they please. We'll be meeting up at 1 PM at the old ticket booth in the Grand Concourse of Grand Central Terminal, so if you're in NYC or live here, it'll be great if you stopped by.
Hope to see you there! |
Glad to see you guys covered by the New York Times (today Monday June 7) with a lengthy article in the New York section. |
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06/07/2004 09:06:12 AM · #25 |
Ban on Subway Photography Prompts Underground Protest
You have to register with the NYTimes site but it's free and you don't get any junk from them, been registered for 3 years and nary a peep in my inbox from them.
WTG guys! Nice way to stand up for all our rights!
Deannda
Wish I could have been there! |
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