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07/21/2008 03:07:30 PM · #51 |
The only Senior Pictures I got were the ones they took at school and that was only a handful of wallets and a couple of 8x10's. I WANTED to whole kit and caboodle with a professional, but I was working a PT job to pay for my own Senior Supplies. Not every teen has a Mommy and Daddy who pays for everything. I would have loved a friend to take some additional pictures for me, if I had one with a camera. At that time...I was the one with the camera, a little Kodak 35mm. Congrats to you for helping out your friends who may not otherwise have Senior Portraits!
I didn't read through all the posts...but MPIX for printing is awesome. I have been using them for great professional quality prints for 3 years now. If you are going to allow them to die cut, be sure you crop your image out enough so they are not going to cut anything important to the image. You mentioned reddish looking pictures, I have had and heard this happen most often with Fuji papers and processing. Not sure why that would be, but doing my own tests around at different labs, it has held true.
Thinks I learned from my trial and error training and more recently a studio photography class I took...you need a reflector and/or off camera flash to get good pictures. Be sure you get enough light into the eyes. It makes a world of difference.
GOOD LUCK!
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07/21/2008 03:39:04 PM · #52 |
We might as well shut this website down. There is no room for any photographers other than professionals so please all rookies need to send all camera equipment to me and I will dispose of properly! :-)
For the record I do all my prints myself up to 13X44. I have only used one commercial printer and that was for a 24X56 inch print in Oklahoma City. Sorry I can't help you in that arena too much, but what if your friends chipped in and bought you a printer, paper, and ink in exchange for the shoot. It would be a win/win situation for you all.
ETA the printer stuff!
Message edited by author 2008-07-21 19:56:48. |
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07/22/2008 05:21:30 AM · #53 |
There are a lot of small minds here and this thread is drifting far from the OP's statements.
Things that I take offense at is that she's asking in the BUSINESS FORUM for advice on how to shoot for FREE. There are other forums better suited to that. She's asking pros how to do their job (better prints) but she's not wanting to be a pro. Why should I help someone, anyone, take business away from someone in my profession?
Senior Kids don't buy the pics - the PARENTS do. So saying to take pity on poor HS kids - sorry, it's the parents not the kids that write the checks (I have had 2 kids, with jobs mind you, pay for some of their images in 3+ years)
While not every photographer is an artist, generally speaking a pro will do a better job than an amateur and someone with years of experience will do better than a HS kid.
Several people here said something like 'all i got was a few wallets or no pics at all' - yeah, and my grandfather walked uphill in the snow both ways to school - so what? There were no cell phones, MTV or computers when I was in school so my kids shouldn't have them either? That logic fails, sorry.
Since someone here was SOOOO kind as to post a pic of mine from way back when I was learning digital, let me post a few from this year - senior pics NOT still lifes. Lets talks apples to apples folks.
  
and one not on this site
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07/22/2008 05:23:17 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by kawesttex:
We might as well shut this website down. There is no room for any photographers other than professionals so please all rookies need to send all camera equipment to me and I will dispose of properly! :-)
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In the BUSINESS FORUM yes, that's correct. There are other places on this site to ask 'how to shoot for free' questions. That's why they seperated this forum out from the rest - so those of us interested in making money with photography can exchange ideas without all the annoying noise.
Message edited by author 2008-07-22 09:23:32.
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07/22/2008 05:25:44 AM · #55 |
Did you ask to have this thread moved to general photography or another forum area? It may have been an easier solution than picking on a high school kid....
As point of fact, I rarely if ever look to see which forum topic a post is in. I am sure others that post here are the same.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by kawesttex:
We might as well shut this website down. There is no room for any photographers other than professionals so please all rookies need to send all camera equipment to me and I will dispose of properly! :-)
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In the BUSINESS FORUM yes, that's correct. There are other places on this site to ask 'how to shoot for free' questions. That's why they seperated this forum out from the rest - so those of us interested in making money with photography can exchange ideas without all the annoying noise. |
Message edited by author 2008-07-22 09:27:20. |
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07/22/2008 05:27:42 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
all the annoying noise. |
Prof_Fate <------------ mostly coming from here.
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07/22/2008 06:03:29 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
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That's funny. In another thread you said this image was from a modeling workshop you attended, not a senior at all.
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07/22/2008 06:09:35 AM · #58 |
I would be offended by this if I were the parent of a senior getting photos taken.
Not an appropriate pose in my book.
Message edited by author 2008-07-22 10:10:01. |
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07/22/2008 06:17:40 AM · #59 |
Going slightly off-topic here, but could someone enlightenme as to the whole Seniors thing?
What age are they for? What sort of proportion of those have a 'Senior' portrait? What sort of cost is involved? Oh, and what is the actual purpose - a sort of right of passage, perhaps? We don't have an tradition like this in England, so the whole thing is very confusing to me. |
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07/22/2008 06:27:06 AM · #60 |
'Senior' here refers to the last year in high school (secondary school prior to university). Originally posted by SaraR:
Going slightly off-topic here, but could someone enlightenme as to the whole Seniors thing?
What age are they for? What sort of proportion of those have a 'Senior' portrait? What sort of cost is involved? Oh, and what is the actual purpose - a sort of right of passage, perhaps? We don't have an tradition like this in England, so the whole thing is very confusing to me. |
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07/22/2008 06:29:25 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
Going slightly off-topic here, but could someone enlightenme as to the whole Seniors thing?
What age are they for? What sort of proportion of those have a 'Senior' portrait? What sort of cost is involved? Oh, and what is the actual purpose - a sort of right of passage, perhaps? We don't have an tradition like this in England, so the whole thing is very confusing to me. |
Traditionally photos are taken sometime in one's senior (12th grade) year, aka the last year of "high school." Schools often publish a yearbook (an annual), which include the senior photos. |
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07/22/2008 06:31:23 AM · #62 |
and traditionally, senior portraits were something you had done so your parents got a photo of you the way you were at the end of high school and you had something to put into your graduation invitations :)
Nowadays, they have become much MUCH more than that. You are right, it is like a right of passage. |
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07/22/2008 06:36:08 AM · #63 |
My seniors get a press-printed book with up to 100 pictures, some prints for mom & dad and a 3ish hour photo session. They spend anywhere from $300 to ~$1,000. Its big business over here (US) if you can get a foothold in the schools. I have Senior reps in 3 schools now.
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07/22/2008 06:46:09 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Senior Kids don't buy the pics - the PARENTS do. |
I paid for my own thank you and several of the seniors that I have shot paid for their own.
ETA - what makes you think she has no intention of going pro? She's young and is gaining experience. You never know what she wants to do with her life, you don't live in her head. I'll admit your good but you had to start somewhere too, I guess you just forgot what it was like wanting to learn and have fun and help others at the same time.
Message edited by author 2008-07-22 10:55:59. |
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07/22/2008 07:06:42 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Why should I help someone, anyone, take business away from someone in my profession? ...Senior Kids don't buy the pics - the PARENTS do. |
I think you'll have a hard time finding sympathy for lost revenue over this:
Originally posted by KaylaSkye:
They aren't wanting anything really fancy, just something to hand out to there friends and whatnot. I don't think that their parents would want any to frame. |
It sounds like she's just starting out... more for portfolio use (no income, no pressure - FUN!). I doubt even one person on this site charged money the first time he/she took some shots of a friend at a party. We've all been there, so give the kid a break. This doesn't hurt your business any more than the dozen other people with cameras at a wedding. |
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07/22/2008 07:15:48 AM · #66 |
Prof, you don't seem to understand that this young person is STARTING out. No one said the photography business was going to be easy. There is a lot of competition out there and if you can't handle the stress of it all - dont bash on a high school students good hearted attempts (not sure if thats the right word for this) to do her friend a favor.
Just about everyone I knew in high school paid for their own senior pictures not the parents.
You must be really insecure to think one friend doing another friend a favor by taking her picture is going to actually make a dent in your wallet.
Why strike out at someone who is starting out? Are you afraid that there may be someone actually better than you out there - and you feel the need to refuse their ask for help - just in case they grow up, set up a business and really really put your arse on the street?
I'm sorry but you are just plain stupid.
* besides all you had to do was ignore this forum if you didn't want to help them out and go read something else
Message edited by author 2008-07-22 11:17:46. |
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07/22/2008 07:53:52 AM · #67 |
This thread saddens me (from posts on both sides of the "argument/point"). Is this still DPC? It reads more like the free-for-all slugfests you come across in the other not so friendly places on the net. I swear, I can almost feel the glee in some of the potshots being taken! "Hardy, har, har...I got you with that zinger", etc...
Sad.
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07/22/2008 07:56:05 AM · #68 |
Get some perspective Prof. You claim to be the genius of business planning yet your intimidated by a High School student taking pics of her friends... By the way I recommend www.bayphoto.com for prints to the OP. If your work stands out so much from the amateurs it shouldn't matter, people will want your quality and dismiss the other stuff. You want art to be appreciated by all yet you put the screws to all your clients with your inflated ego and high prices and add on costs for just about everything. Your work is quality but everything else is suspect.
If someone is undercutting you, its your problem not theirs. If I was in PA, I would be undercutting the crap out of you...why? Because my business plan is good. With my current pricing, I have a huge margin, plenty of work and happy clients. I have all my equipment paid for and I have lots now. All this is done w/ cheaper prices than yours. Am I taking business away from other pro photogs? I sure hope so.
I also donate my services to community events. Could I charge...maybe, but if I don't I ensure that I get the job and not someone else. I make nothing from them and spend a lot of time. Why? Because I shake hands and mingle and make contacts. Everyone knows someone getting married, needing a baby pic, a senior pic etc.
Lastly, haven't you noticed that the business of photography forum is 90% people asking questions to start out not pros sharing ideas. You seem to know this b/c you slam every beginner...myself included.
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07/22/2008 08:16:44 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
This thread saddens me (from posts on both sides of the "argument/point"). Is this still DPC? It reads more like the free-for-all slugfests you come across in the other not so friendly places on the net. I swear, I can almost feel the glee in some of the potshots being taken! "Hardy, har, har...I got you with that zinger", etc...
Sad. |
Seconded here... |
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07/22/2008 08:18:34 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I swear, I can almost feel the glee in some of the potshots being taken! "Hardy, har, har...I got you with that zinger", etc...
Sad. |
A reaction to all the self-serving arrogance having been pushed down their throats for so long?
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07/22/2008 08:19:32 AM · #71 |
| you could argue that the true DPC community is showing through. One of the members was unfairly shot down and blasted for asking a simple question and most are just sticking up for her...some more harshly than others. |
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07/22/2008 08:26:35 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Thanks for taking the food from my mouth. My business is photography and you're taking my customers and giving it away free. My kids thank you now that they won't be getting any new clothes for school cause daddy's business was taken away by amateurs.
Then you have the balls to ask me to help you do it!
Sorry, not this time folks. |
You aren't getting the business from someone else's friends anyway.
Get your business on your own merits.
If that person, or any photographer, chooses to give away a memory, a timeless image, that's their business.
I do that from time to time for people I care about, and nobody will tell me I can't.
If the OP wants to PM me, I would be DELIGHTED to share my thoughts about how I give beautiful prints to friends and loved ones.
What I have in the way of portrait talent is a GIFT, not something I've learned and worked for, it's a talent, and I feel that in many cases, it was meant to be shared, not just done for profit.
I can vouch for the FACT that there are no less than 50 parents on my daughter's cheerleading team that have some pretty awesome memories of their kids because I gave them a pic here and there.
Some of these parents don't have the money for that kind of thing in the first place.
So I end up with a dear friend, and a deep, grateful smile and look from a Mom or Dad with no money....
Gee, that really SUCKS!!!
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07/22/2008 08:38:24 AM · #73 |
Begin temporary hijack:
Sorry, this is just turning out like a witch hunt... it is happening in EVERY thread where  Prof_Fate answers a question. Thoughtfully or not. Polite or not. Calling him out for it once is one thing, continuing a thread WAYYYY off topic just to flame someone is quite another. In a lot of cases, the SC is jumping in and egging it on/adding to it rather than keeping the thread on topic.
I think this girl can defend herself... she seems pretty grounded to me... it is getting ridiculous that everyone is jumping on one person in every thread he posts in.
I personally think once was enough to make a point. Sorry, like the rest of you, I felt the need to speak my mind.
/hijack
ETA: Shame on you all.
Message edited by author 2008-07-22 12:40:20. |
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07/22/2008 08:59:44 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
ETA: Shame on you all. |
I have to say that I strongly resent this portion of your post. To my mind, a lot of the outpourings appearing here are natural human reactions coming from naturally tolerant people- such people who would be prepared to put up with minor irritations without comment or comeback for almost forever and a day. It's just that this latest diatribe has crossed the line for many and it's rather like elastic snapping back.
Mr_Fate, for instance, seems totally unaware of the history of businesses, regardless of his protestations about being an expert in such matters. History is littered with whole industries that have been rendered redundant by the march of progress. Professional photography could very easily be one of the next and it's not much use railing about it.
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07/22/2008 09:06:35 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Begin temporary hijack:
Sorry, this is just turning out like a witch hunt... it is happening in EVERY thread where Prof_Fate answers a question. Thoughtfully or not. Polite or not. Calling him out for it once is one thing, continuing a thread WAYYYY off topic just to flame someone is quite another. In a lot of cases, the SC is jumping in and egging it on/adding to it rather than keeping the thread on topic.
I think this girl can defend herself... she seems pretty grounded to me... it is getting ridiculous that everyone is jumping on one person in every thread he posts in.
I personally think once was enough to make a point. Sorry, like the rest of you, I felt the need to speak my mind.
/hijack
ETA: Shame on you all. |
I disagree. I usually take up for Fate. I just thought THIS post crossed the line. |
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