SB600 vs. SB800, interesting results...

05/21/2008 08:56:04 AM · #1

Anyone ever compare the SB600 and SB800 directly? I did this last night at my local camera store, thinking that I needed to upgrade to the SB800 for its better power output and faster recycling times, and what I found surprised meâ�¦ I'm not talking about a feature comparison (the 800 obviously wins that one), but a performance comparison.

First off, the setup. I had the camera (D70s) set in Manual mode, Auto ISO OFF, Flash WB preset, ISO 200, Shutter at 1/250, and was playing with the aperture to vary exposure to test the power output of each flash. This was in the store which was not too brightly lit, so ambient light was contributing almost nothing to the shot (if the flash couldn't keep up and didn't fire, the shot was almost black). Lens was the 18-200 VR shot at various focal lengths. SB800 was NOT tested with itâ��s optional 5th cell battery adapter (only 4 cells used, the same 4 NiMH cells swapped back and forth from the SB600).

The SB800 does not cover nearly as wide or as smooth as the SB600; I consistently got pictures that were hot in the center and under exposed around the edges with the 800 (at any focal length shorter than 120mm), while the 600 was much softer looking in the center and the light more evenly distributed across the image. In fact, the SB600 looked better (smoother) across the image with itâ��s 14 degree diffuser flipped down than the SB800 looked with both its 17 degree diffuser flipped down AND its 14 degree diffuser â��hoodâ�� clipped on. With a Sto-Fen diffuser installed over the front the SB600, the 800 couldn't touch it for light quality. This is not what I was expecting! The Sto-Fen improved the quality of the 800 compared to its included 14 degree diffuser, but not to the level of the 600. And this is on a DX camera... I would expect an FX format D3 to amplify this condition.

I found the SB800's color quite a bit cooler than the SB600 (I didnâ��t play with the WB compensation to see exactly how much). Also, the SB800 required +1/3 to +2/3 stop of flash compensation to equal the SB600... the 800 consistently under exposed compared to the 600 which seemed very accurate (and always has in my shooting experience). The SB800 was more powerful, though, seeming to have more than a full stop of power over the SB600 (at 200mm focal length, anyway) as well as having a bit better recycling capability (given the same flash output as the 600, not at full power). I didnâ��t try any bounce flash as the store has a relatively high ceiling and off-white ceiling tiles.

The reason I was there looking at the SB800 was that my SB600 had come up short last weekend; it simply couldn't keep up to my D70s firing at 3FPS. Yes, I understand that no flash could likely do that at full power, but I wanted to see what the 800 was capable of. The 800 also has the capability of using an external power supply (for faster recycle times), the 600 does not.

Has anyone else noticed these differences between the two units? Maybe the SB800 would fare better when used as intended, for fill flash only? I didn't test the two for fill flash performance, but I've been extremely happy with the performance of the SB600.

SB600 = Better exposure consistency
Better wide angle coverage
Smoother light quality
Nice warm color

SB800 = More power (approx. 1-1/2 stops)
More zoom (105mm vs. 85mm)
Slightly faster recycle times
Option of using 5th battery (improving recycle times)
Option of using external power source (greatly improving recycle times and battery life)

BlueAngel

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/21/2008 08:57:16 AM · #2

I guess I should add that I'm not claiming anything other than my own observations and wondering if anyone else has observed the same.

Message edited by author 2008-05-21 12:57:28.

ben4345

Nikon D700

05/21/2008 09:23:44 AM · #3

Well, keep in mind. The Sb-800 is superior in real world usage. I find the sb-800 actually has better consistency (maybe because it can deliver more power when needed?). The sb-600 did have a, very slight, warmer tone I didn't care for it. I used the sb-600 for over a year, when I upgraded to the 800, it was so much more pleasure to use. And I think it was worth every dime, at least for me.
*crosses fingers that no one brings up Ken Rockwell comparison*

Nikolai1024

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f2.8-4.0D

05/21/2008 09:56:00 AM · #4

I HATE sb600 menu system. I just can't remember which buttons to press or hold together and wind up trying every combination. Eventually something works.

Other than that both work well for me.

rob_smith

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

05/21/2008 12:30:20 PM · #5

I love my SB800...

JMart

Nikon D80

05/21/2008 01:48:11 PM · #6

Originally posted by ben4345:

But according to Ken Rockwell [everyone genuflect], the SB800 is just an oversized prima donna strutting about like, ah nevermind... :P

BlueAngel

05/21/2008 04:07:08 PM · #7

Originally posted by ben4345:

The Sb-800 is superior in real world usage. I find the sb-800 actually has better consistency... ...The sb-600 did have a, very slight, warmer tone I didn't care for it.

Going back to my comments about under exposure by 1/3 - 2/3 stop compared to the SB600, did you find the same thing? As I said, I was using the flash for the primary light source in my comparison, maybe my results would be different using for fill only? That's how I always use the flash anyway, I was just trying to quickly quantify the difference between the two.

The angle of coverage really surprised me, though, with the 600 covering MUCH more width with smoother light output.

As far as the color goes, I had the WB set on flash with no compensation, and on polished metal surfaces the reflections from the 800 had a "blue" cast to them which was not the case with the 600. What subjects are you typically shooting? I hope to learn from everyone's comments here.

Have you ever used an external power pack to power your 800? If so, what were your thoughts?

Message edited by author 2008-05-21 20:10:56.

kidchico

Nikon D70

05/24/2008 08:59:14 AM · #8

I'm selling my SB-800. I've had it for about 2 years. I haven't had time to play with it much. If you are interested, email me at: photochico @ gmail .com
Thanks!

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/18/2008 09:13:40 AM · #9

I have a D50 and a SB600. I 'think' I understand that the SB600 can be triggered off camera by another flash. EXCEPT in the case of the D50. I read that I would need a SB800 on camera that would then trigger the SB600 off camera. (no cords as the D50 does not have that capability either)

Am I correct? or more confused?

I'm thinking that I would purchase a SB800 to be on camera thus giving my an additional flash to use for additional lighting.

Thanks for your help.

FireBird

06/18/2008 12:16:02 PM · #10

You're correct Melissa. You'd need either an SU-800 or SB-800 to properly control your SB-600. But.... I don't personally have a D50 so I haven't really tried it. Seems strange to me the 50 won't, but Nikon is famous for dropping some options in lower price ranges.

Citadel

Nikon D7500

06/18/2008 12:26:18 PM · #11

Yeah, fir3bird is correct. The D50 doesn't have the capability (Dag nabit!). The SU-800 operates as a commander like the D70(?), D80, D200 etc. I believe the D40 and the D60 may have this limitation as well.

I am using the cactus triggers described on //strobist.blogspot.com/
Not quite as nice as the pocket wizards but it does help eliminate wires. Plus they are radio rather than IR so you don't need to have line of sight. Cost? $35 CAD including shipping... Definitely cheaper than an SU-800

Message edited by author 2008-06-18 16:27:08.

06/18/2008 12:46:58 PM · #12

Thank you both for explaining........
I want additional light sources but was stuck on the D50 limitiations..

now I have to go look at this cactus trigger!!

FireBird

06/18/2008 01:11:30 PM · #13

Originally posted by dassilem:

Thank you both for explaining........
I want additional light sources but was stuck on the D50 limitiations..

now I have to go look at this cactus trigger!!

I'm also using the cactus triggers. I've got 4 SB-28 and one SB-24 flash units. Unfortunately these are used manually. You'll have to check your exposure by chimping on the camera display or use an exposure meter.

togtog

06/18/2008 02:16:34 PM · #14

Couple things to note if they didn't come up or weren't tried.

I have no experience with the 600, only the 800.

The 800 has a little diffusing filter that pulls out from the top edge of the flash to soften and widen the coverage. You first should see if that gives the soft edge to edge effect you are going for.

Secondly with both the 600 and 800 at full power the 800 is brighter so your center may appear brighter, try comparing both in manual mode with the 600 set to 1/1 and the 800 set to 1/1 -1/6ev maybe, that should about level their power.

Good luck :)

PS- Before it comes up, also the 800 gets less flashes per charge and is slower to recycle, because it is brighter, setting down its power as above should decrease recharge time and give more shots per charge. Personally I find in a lot of cases 1/16 is fine for my needs on the 800 and allows continuous shooting when needed.

Message edited by author 2008-06-18 18:17:18.

06/19/2008 05:36:42 AM · #15

I'm still going to probably need another flash....unless I only want side lighting or back lighting, right? as the cactus trigger will be on the hotshoe thus no flash from the front....my one SB600 would be the only light source from whereever I put it....
would you get another SB600 and the cactus triggers or an sB600 to us with the SB600??

togtog

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

06/19/2008 02:49:08 PM · #16

Don't forget reflectors, you can make them from foil or buy them, they help to fill in shadows. You can also use whiteboard or paper to reflect a softer dimmer light, good for actually seeing the light in the subject, such as eyes or on glass.

However eventually you probably will want more than one flash. I know the book that came with my SB-800 is trying to trick me into getting 12 total, hehe...

There are things that just one flash can't do however, for example back lighting a subject as well as from the sides, this takes 2-4 depending on the desired effect, one for back lighting, one from each side to create highlights, one aimed up to control the other flashes and to provide fill, etc.

That said, 1 flash is better than 0, 2 probably better than 1, 3 well, everyone likes lots of toys... get what you can afford and think you can use. :)

Ann

Olympus OM-D E-M1

06/20/2008 06:57:23 AM · #17

Originally posted by dassilem:

If you're using the cactus triggers, you'll be using your flashes in manual mode. No reason to spend the money on a flash that does iTTL when you'll never be using it that way. You might consider this, or an older used Nikon speedlight as your second flash.