Voters have out done themselves. ???

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/23/2007 09:07:05 PM · #1

Congratulations to the photographer.

"Motion Panning Challenge"

338 votes

54 comments, most saying the photo did not meet challenge, ave commenter vote 6.0000

59 no camera voters ave 6.100

195 voters of 338 6 & Above. including 18x10

Okay the photo was sharp, except for the wings, and with a shutter speed of 1/3200. image should have frozen.

Will all photographers be given the same latitude in future for a good photo, even though it may not meet the challenge?

Judi

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

01/23/2007 09:09:27 PM · #2

Which photo?

BrianR

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/23/2007 09:12:47 PM · #3

Originally posted by Judi:

Which photo?

I wasn't going to mention this, look at 32nd.

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

01/23/2007 09:14:27 PM · #4

I was wondering who goes panning at 1/3200

TechnoShroom

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

01/23/2007 09:15:30 PM · #5

Originally posted by Judi:

Which photo?

I'm assuming this one

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

01/23/2007 09:16:06 PM · #6

I guess you have a point. It really isn't motion panning.

Edit to add: You know though it isn't the submitters fault. The voters put it where it finished. Maybe the majority that voted on it doesn't know what motion panning is.

Message edited by author 2007-01-24 02:19:15.

fotomann_forever

01/23/2007 09:17:23 PM · #7

It is a good shot, but (I hate to say this... ick) DNMC.

crayon

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FH1

01/23/2007 09:17:31 PM · #8

take a look at this thread and ye shall find the answers...

Message edited by author 2007-01-24 03:56:46.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

01/23/2007 09:19:35 PM · #9

Well it seems many did have a problem with it and gave it low votes. Overall it scored a 6.0 so it surely wasn't in contention for a ribbon despite the otherwise good quality of the image.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/23/2007 09:22:18 PM · #10

This one, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY using panning, and lots of it. Yet there's a consensus among the commenters that it's not "really" what the challenge was asking for, sigh... Some people, amazingly, didn't see the panning at all. But I do have one bird semi-frozen: the others are coming and going in various directions. Finished with a resounding 5.2...

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

01/23/2007 09:24:23 PM · #11

Originally posted by crayon:

take a look at this thread and ye shall find the answers...

Nevermind. I'm tired of this topic coming up every 2 weeks.

fotomann_forever

01/23/2007 09:27:50 PM · #12

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Nevermind. I'm tired of this topic coming up every 2 weeks.

:-)

silverscreen

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/23/2007 09:46:28 PM · #13

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

For what it's worth Bear_Music - your picture was the one receiving my highest rating. I think it's a great shot and definatley meets the challenge.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/23/2007 10:06:40 PM · #14

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

It is a good shot, but (I hate to say this... ick) DNMC.

I'll disagree. The photographer's comments state this was one of several in a burst of continuous shots. From the title and the shutter-speed, the photographer was most surely panning with the motion of the subject to get the hawk in the frame.

The only shame I find in the image is the shallow depth of field does not isolate the entire subject, but instead blurred the wing-tips a bit. But with the preconceived notions the voters seem to have carried into voting that bit of OOF on the tips may well have been a bit of saving grace.

I think it meets the challenge just fine -- just not quite in the expected way. But I suppose that is the problem when challenges are named for established photographic techniques, but the challenge description doesn't make it it perfectly clear that specific technique should be used -- that is panning with a slower shutter speed to leave a bit (or a lot!) of motion blur.

David

Azrifel

Nikon Coolpix P340

01/23/2007 10:31:01 PM · #15

I have to go down to 1/400s and preferably 1/100s to get good panning blur on a motorcycle going 100mph. 1/3000 would freeze them solid litteraly. Panning with the bird, sure. But it ain't motion panning.

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

01/24/2007 03:04:15 AM · #16

Originally posted by David.C:

I think it meets the challenge just fine -- just not quite in the expected way. But I suppose that is the problem when challenges are named for established photographic techniques, but the challenge description doesn't make it it perfectly clear that specific technique should be used -- that is panning with a slower shutter speed to leave a bit (or a lot!) of motion blur.

I think that if you read the description (not just the name of the challenge) that it's pretty clear what was expected:

In photography, panning is a technique used to suggest fast motion and bring out foreground from background.

So the idea was to "suggest fast motion". And a fast shutter speed that freezes everything doesn't do that, regardless of whether the photographer was panning with the subject or not.

For what it's wort, I like the image a LOT and am extremely impressed that he managed to capture the image as sharply as he did. That took talent, not just shutter speed! But agree with others that it just doesn't fit the challenge.

Message edited by author 2007-01-24 08:04:44.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/24/2007 03:28:30 AM · #17

Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by David.C:
I think it meets the challenge just fine -- just not quite in the expected way. But I suppose that is the problem when challenges are named for established photographic techniques, but the challenge description doesn't make it it perfectly clear that specific technique should be used -- that is panning with a slower shutter speed to leave a bit (or a lot!) of motion blur.

I think that if you read the description (not just the name of the challenge) that it's pretty clear what was expected:

In photography, panning is a technique used to suggest fast motion and bring out foreground from background.

So the idea was to "suggest fast motion". And a fast shutter speed that freezes everything doesn't do that, regardless of whether the photographer was panning with the subject or not.

For what it's wort, I like the image a LOT and am extremely impressed that he managed to capture the image as sharply as he did. That took talent, not just shutter speed! But agree with others that it just doesn't fit the challenge.

I did read the description and I am well aware of the technique involved. While the technique does often (nearly always) include motion blur -- that is not mentioned in the description. To meet the challenge, according to the description (as you quoted above), three things must be present -- panning, a suggestion of fast motion and a seperation of the foreground from the background. Three criteria, all of which I feel were met. Panning was quite likely used during the continuous shooting and the foreground subject is clearly seperated from the background.

The problem, as you stated, is 'does the image suggest fast motion'? No trails motion blur are needed to show direction of movement since the subject itself implies the direction of movement -- and more critically, that motion is occuring. The title -- and yes, it can be argued to be a bit of a shoehorn -- completes the suggestion that the implied motion is fast.

Three requirements of the challenge, and all three of them have been met. Granted the image does not have the motion blur so often associated with motion panning and brought that additional requirement to the voting, but apparently not enough to push the image very far toward the bottom of the pile.

If technique challenges are to be continued -- and I have always wanted more than there are -- the challenge descriptions need to become much more definitive or the voters need to become much more open to interpretations.

I find it intensely funny, and not in a 'haha' way, that a web-site devoted to stretching the comfort zone of its photographer participants can have cultivated an environent of voting that pulls the comfort zone in around the voter much more tightly than it would normally be.

David

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

01/24/2007 04:53:06 AM · #18

Originally posted by David.C:

[quote=dwterry] In photography, panning is a technique used to suggest fast motion and bring out foreground from background.

The problem, as you stated, is 'does the image suggest fast motion'? No trails motion blur are needed to show direction of movement since the subject itself implies the direction of movement

Does it, though?

For all I can tell, the bird was just hovering in the wind. Or was just about to make a soft landing. I see no evidence of motion. Not fast motion. Not slow motion. None.

(again, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the image, just don't feel it meets a "panning" challenge where the goal was to 'suggest fast motion" thru the technique of pannning)

levyj413

Nikon D7100

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

01/24/2007 06:00:59 AM · #19

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Nevermind. I'm tired of this topic coming up every 2 weeks.

Got any threads to point to? I searched before I created my thread, but apparently didn't use the right search terms. I'm interested in reading the discussions.

Thanks.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/24/2007 06:08:51 AM · #20

Originally posted by David.C:

I find it intensely funny, and not in a 'haha' way, that a web-site devoted to stretching the comfort zone of its photographer participants can have cultivated an environent of voting that pulls the comfort zone in around the voter much more tightly than it would normally be.

David

Well, you are only supposed to stretch as far as the next carefully defined little box. Anything that might be considered not canon has to be excised. Do anything differently enough and it'll have to become flavour of the month before it gets accepted.

(heavy dodge/burn, 'grunge', HDR as examples of trendy styles)

01/24/2007 09:58:12 AM · #21

Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by David.C:
[quote=dwterry] In photography, panning is a technique used to suggest fast motion and bring out foreground from background.

The problem, as you stated, is 'does the image suggest fast motion'? No trails motion blur are needed to show direction of movement since the subject itself implies the direction of movement

Does it, though?

For all I can tell, the bird was just hovering in the wind. Or was just about to make a soft landing. I see no evidence of motion. Not fast motion. Not slow motion. None. ...

For me, sure it does; head facing forward, feet held back and curled under. From my view it is definitely moving forward, or perhaps banking slightly to the right. But I do see how it could be taken as not moving -- don't agree with it, but I can see how others may.

Looks like the photographer succeeded in communicating motion to me, but not to you and others.

David