mac vs. pc - DPChallenge Forums

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/08/2006 04:53:04 PM · #53

Originally posted by nomad469:

9 to 5 Pacific time Monday thru Friday PLEAZE

In principle I agree with you. In practice, it may be that those tech support people were lonlier than the Maytag repairman ...

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of OS X -- in my pre-press work, I find PostScriptÂ® works much better in the OS 9 implimentation ...

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

07/08/2006 04:53:33 PM · #54

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by focuspoint:
Sometime it gets really frustrating to fix PCs, bugs, viruses... but they are not totally MS's fault either. PC has been out there more time, more powerful than MAC, it's OS kept same or similar structure for years so others (bad programmers) could develop such head aches (viruses).

Didn't Windows come after the Mac GUI -- wasn't that what the big lawsuit was all about?

FWIW at work I am still using a Mac (a rare Mac clone, actually) running System 7.5.3 to image films for offset printing. I can download it from my dual-1.25 GHz G4 (running OS 9.2) using software we bought in 1993.

The lawsuit was about the Windows 3.0 GUI, not earlier versions. 3.0 is the basis of what you see today in Windows. HP was also part of that lawsuit for it's use of folders in its NewWave OS shell (which really didn't go anywhere).

Some trivia you may or may not know. Steve Jobs boosted the MAC, GUI & Mouse, from Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center). He gave them 100,000 private shares of Apple stock to get a look and some control of Xerox's lab projects (as well as help from their marketing department).

Two books on the subject you might find of interest:
"Accidental Empires"
"Dealers of Lightning: Xerox PARC and the down of the computer age"

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

07/08/2006 04:53:34 PM · #55

It was my understanding in the 90's that PC's were for business applications and macs were for art and teachers. If you ran a business you needed a pc to get accounting and word processing.

07/08/2006 04:57:00 PM · #56

Originally posted by chaimelle:

It was my understanding in the 90's that PC's were for business applications and macs were for art and teachers. If you ran a business you needed a pc to get accounting and word processing.

Actually, VisiCalc was the "killer app" for the Apple II. VisiCalc was the first finanical spreadsheet. Apple tried to get into the business arena early on, but could not compete with IBM and MS (real David and Goliath story there). Apple's out was to reach into the education and graphics industries. PageMaker was one of the first publishing apps that helped push the MAC.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/08/2006 04:58:44 PM · #57

Originally posted by chaimelle:

It was my understanding in the 90's that PC's were for business applications and macs were for art and teachers. If you ran a business you needed a pc to get accounting and word processing.

The common line was that there were way more software titles written for Windows, somewhat overlooking the fact that you only needed one good program on the Mac to get stuff done. Most "business" applications have been available for the Mac from very early on -- for example Microsoft Word 3.0 -- and most Mac programs not only worked, but worked (and were designed to look) so consistently that you usually didn't need to read the manual to get started. Schools and design studios need word-processing, accounting, and database programs too.

nomad469

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED

07/08/2006 04:59:47 PM · #58

Originally posted by focuspoint:

Didn't Windows come after the Mac GUI -- wasn't that what the big lawsuit was all about?

xerox had the first GUI called PARC or something like that in the 70s
and then Amiga GUI (workbench) hit first followed several weeks later by LISA <- The prototype for the Mac ...

Microsoft (who at that time was just Gates and a handfull of folks ) wrote some of the code for Amiga (there was a Microsoft copyright statement in a segment AmigaDos)

"Windows" was late to the party ... about 84 I think

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

07/08/2006 05:00:40 PM · #59

Wow,I do remember hearing of VisiCalc but never knew what it was. Always had a pc, and was probably one of the last users of Word Star, before dragging myself to learn Word Perfect. Ahh, history...

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/08/2006 05:04:23 PM · #60

One thing I'll admit Windows may have had over the Mac: as part of my work in a service bureau, I went to a print shop in downtown Oakland to help them install the drivers and printer descriptions needed for them to make PostScriptÂ® files to be output on our Linotronic and AGFA imagesetters. It was only after I got there that I discovered that their version of Windows displayed all the menu choices in Chinese ...

07/08/2006 05:11:34 PM · #61

Originally posted by GeneralE:

The common line was that there were way more software titles written for Windows, somewhat overlooking the fact that you only needed one good program on the Mac to get stuff done...

Well, there's a slightly different twist to this comment, basically Gates and Jobs had too very different strategies. Gates wanted Windows to be ubiquitous and thus opened up the OS code to any and all software developers to write apps for it. Jobs held the OS proprietary - thus more software companies wrote for Windows.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/08/2006 05:15:28 PM · #62

Originally posted by macpapas:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
The common line was that there were way more software titles written for Windows, somewhat overlooking the fact that you only needed one good program on the Mac to get stuff done...

Well, there's a slightly different twist to this comment, basically Gates and Jobs had too very different strategies. Gates wanted Windows to be ubiquitous and thus opened up the OS code to any and all software developers to write apps for it. Jobs held the OS proprietary - thus more software companies wrote for Windows.

I don't think a lack of developer tools was the problem -- it was the licensing of the OS to hardware manufacturers vs. selling profitable hardware as well as the OS. Jobs wanted to control the hardware configuration so as to avoid the innumerable hardware/software/driver headaches which make a lot of money for Windows Certified Technicians. Gates said here's the OS -- build whatever you want and it's your problem to work with the customer to get it to work.

Note: It seems but a small step to me from having an OS which runs on an Intel chip in an Apple box to an OS which runs on an Intel chip in any box ...

Message edited by author 2006-07-08 21:17:18.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

07/08/2006 05:20:15 PM · #63

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Yep, no argument there! :-)

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

07/08/2006 05:30:18 PM · #64

Just a quick back-track:

Originally posted by DanSig:

hereÂ´s a poll, let's just make the decision for her :)

POLL

Any results on this?

Now continue on...

justin_hewlett

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

07/08/2006 05:38:02 PM · #65

Originally posted by chaimelle:

Just a quick back-track:

Originally posted by DanSig:
hereÂ´s a poll, let's just make the decision for her :)

POLL

Any results on this?

Try here. Should take you to the results page.

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200 f/2.8L

07/08/2006 05:42:52 PM · #66

I use a PC because Macs confuse the heck outta me @_@

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

07/08/2006 06:07:00 PM · #67

Ah my favorite topic... I think I'll set this round out.

But I will say that I heard a good one at the group photo shoot today as we were discussing Canon, Nikon, Oly and the likes.

"People defend their product because good, bad or otherwise, it is what THEY invested their hard earned cash in".

People will never tell you low points (but point them out in the other products) during the sales pitch.

They would like you to share their joy/pain. That's all I can figure, because why would so many people be concerned about what you put in your house?

Message edited by author 2006-07-08 22:10:44.

FocusPoint

XIAOMI Redmi Note 8 Pro

07/08/2006 06:15:09 PM · #68

Originally posted by awpollard:

...I heard a good one at the group photo shoot today as we were discussing Canon, Nikon, Oly and the likes.

GO PENTAX

Originally posted by awpollard:

...it is what THEY invested their hard earned cash in".

That's one of the reasons... the other is that Pentax is my very first DSLR machine... firsts always be remembered as the best ;)

Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM for Canon

07/08/2006 06:45:19 PM · #69

Originally posted by awpollard:

Great points! I am currently surrounded by Windows, MAC and Linux pc's in my home office - they're all good and they all suck - just in different ways! That's why I kept my replies to historical commentary.

Message edited by author 2006-07-08 22:46:31.

coronamv

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

07/08/2006 07:23:29 PM · #70

Well here is a scary fact as we all know you can run XP on an intel mac. You can also run OSX on any pc based machine as long as it has a code in the chip and I get this wrong but I believe its sse3 coding or something like that basically most chips you purchase today have it.I actually had it running first under VMWARE to test it then installed it native on a spare HDD about 6 months ago. So OS's are going to be your main diferences both priced about the same. Also applications look at that side decide what you need and go shopping online for price. I say Stay away from any entry level hardware and software. That is where most people find issues with drives and support. Good luck

fotomann_forever

07/08/2006 07:47:30 PM · #71

All the history in this thread and noone has mentioned OS/2, which is where Windows NT and subsequent Windows products evolved from. In the end, IBM got royally screwed by MS on that deal.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/08/2006 08:05:36 PM · #72

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

All the history in this thread and noone has mentioned OS/2, which is where Windows NT and subsequent Windows products evolved from. In the end, IBM got royally screwed by MS on that deal.

How many royalites do you think ATT/Bell Labs is collecting these days for UNIX?

We also haven't mentioned ENIAC or Alan Turing or William Shockley or the guy (forgot his name for the moment -- Bill Joy?) who invented the mouse and the GUI in the first place -- Side note: I recently saw an online exhibit of photos of screens as the interface for the Mac was developed.

Message edited by author 2006-07-09 00:09:47.

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

07/08/2006 08:31:49 PM · #73

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
All the history in this thread and noone has mentioned OS/2, which is where Windows NT and subsequent Windows products evolved from. In the end, IBM got royally screwed by MS on that deal.

How many royalites do you think ATT/Bell Labs is collecting these days for UNIX?

We also haven't mentioned ENIAC or Alan Turing or William Shockley or the guy (forgot his name for the moment -- Bill Joy?) who invented the mouse and the GUI in the first place -- Side note: I recently saw an online exhibit of photos of screens as the interface for the Mac was developed.

Douglas Engelbart of Stanford Research Center in 1963

BTW: Microsoft Wrote OS/2 for IBM until 1990 (OS/2 v1.00 - v1.03) When Microsoft and IBM had their little spat... Microsoft Renamed OS/2 v3.0 (that they was working) to Windows NT.

Message edited by author 2006-07-09 00:52:05.