I'm so mad? Why is this atittude?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/23/2006 01:36:52 PM · #1

Let me tell you a small sad story for me...

In the last weekend I shoot two test drives for a magazine (for free... extanging for publicity as I used to do- some photos can be seen in my portfolio). The editor told me that probably one of the photos will end up being the cover of the magazine. Some of the photos where done with models from an agency of strippers and models (very often seen in shows in the motorbikes shows). I the photos online in a password protected gallery in my smugmug account, and sent a email to the manager of the models to take a look.

The manager phoned me an hour ago because he wants one of the photos to do a publicity for them. I and a bit lost about the pricing of the photo because it will be a small production (I think less than 1000) to distribute among the motard clubs and clients (it will be a callendar with A3 size). So I called the other photographer of the magazine beacuse he shoots a lot of moto racings and sells often the photos to the pilots, magazines and sponcers. I was hppong that he could help me to figure out how to charge...

He just gave me this awnser: "Each one have his own price. Figure out yours!". I was F#$% up. I think I couldn't do this to anyone. What does he got ot hide? Is he afraid that I might steel his job???

Well I just neede to tell this to my dpc familly... I feel better already. Tank's.

stare_at_the_sun

Canon EOS-10D

01/23/2006 01:39:29 PM · #2

I can tell your mad....you misspelled like a madman does.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

01/23/2006 01:42:12 PM · #3

My price just went up. ;-)

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

01/23/2006 01:42:47 PM · #4

Originally posted by stare_at_the_sun:

I can tell your mad....you misspelled like a madman does.

Or like someone whose first language isn't english does...

Nuno, doesn't sound like a very polite answer from that guy! You should ask in here instead :) There are plenty of people here that I'm sure would be more than happy to help you with advice on deciding prices and things :)

DjFenzl

01/23/2006 01:43:26 PM · #5

I've run acroos a lot of photographers in my day that have those kinds of attitudes and am just as bewildered as you. I just don't understand why some people are so unwilling to help another out - and act like you are wasting their time for even asking. I just have to keep reminding myself it's not everyone, it's not everyone... it takes a special kind of insecurity to be that kind of jerk.

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

01/23/2006 01:47:30 PM · #6

Just a thought, why not go to alamy, sign up and check out some of their prices for a similar deal? You said the shoot was for free publicity so I guess anything you get will be a bonus? Congratulations on taking a saleable shot too :)

SandyP

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 USM

01/23/2006 01:50:23 PM · #7

Originally posted by Megatherian:

... it takes a special kind of insecurity to be that kind of jerk.

That's so right Nuno! Insecure people would be very fearful about giving anyone help that might do better than them. I believe tho that what goes around comes around. . .and a guy like that is going to have a business with just that kind of bad "stuff" happening to him every day!

Take the advice of Konador and get the people here to help you with pricing your first few times! Good Luck!!

KiwiShotz

Panasonic DMC-FZ20

Panasonic DMW-LTZ10 1.5x Teleconverter

01/23/2006 01:57:07 PM · #8

To be fair to the other photog. If he is trying to make a living from his photography, he sees your intrusion into his territory as a threat ... and why wouldn't he. If he's built up a relationship with the magazine including probably doing freebies too and then finds that they have asked someone else to do do a shoot - I'd be mad too.

In a way, I can't believe you've been so commercially naiive as well as inconsiderate of the other photog's feelings. I know of no business where you can ring up a competitor and ask for their pricing structure or agreement details. In this country under the Commerce Act, that is called Price Fixing and Collusion and is punishable by a $20,000 fine and 2 yrs in jail. Each commercial transaction must be negotiated individually. You decide your unique selling proposition, your costs, your profit margin and then structure your charges accordingly.

Just to prove I'm not a complete b@#%d, yes we do help each other here and within the last 2 weeks I have posted a full scale of charges and licence options in these forums.

The response? Lots of 'cools' or 'thanks' or 'awesome'? Nope, nothing. No acknowledgement at all. People are happy to take and take and take without the simple effort of saying thank you. I'll mot make the effort again.

Brett

Message edited by author 2006-01-23 19:08:54.

fotomann_forever

01/23/2006 02:00:57 PM · #9

Personally, that attitude would make me work hard TO STEAL HIS JOB...

01/23/2006 02:02:17 PM · #10

Thank's for the support people. It was on purpose that I refered to dpc as a familly. I did it because it's what I feel.

I will chek alamy soon. And din't post here instead because I was coming home in my car and I only arrived know. Tank you all.

I've seen this knid of behaviour before, in photography and in other areas also. I was a sports fisherman in a club where I was tought by an older one that have always tought me the "tricks" and "secrets" that everyone wanted to hide for himselfs. So I grew up seeing that man not having any secrets for himself, and I take that to everyone and everything in my life. AS I like to learn with others that have more knowledge than I do, I wouldn't be sincere to myself if I kept the knowledge to me only. Intead I also like to teach.

Panasonic DMW-LTZ10 1.5x Teleconverter

01/23/2006 02:05:21 PM · #11

Originally posted by KiwiPix:

Let me tell you that he does nothing for free for the magazine.

And I'm not beeng nieeve. I just don't have a professional background as a pro photog to know the pricings.

NeverLovedElvis

Olympus C-760UZ

01/23/2006 02:13:26 PM · #12

I can really see where this other photographer is coming from.
He doesn't know you or your work, he doesn't know if this is going to be a one shot or an ongoing thing, and he's right, each photograph is different and is worth something different depending on how it's going to be used.

I remember when I worked in a small bookshop, we had managed to get a shipment of one title before everyone else because we had a really good relationship with the rep. We had this title for two weeks before it had some TV coverage and suddenly everyone wanted it but only we had it. I had other shops ring me up asking me where they could get hold of a copy and I told them to get the customer to ring me direct and I'd post it to them, at the end of the day it was bread and butter to me, much like photography is to this other guy.
Let's put it the other way around, why should I secure rights to publications for other people and why should another photographer work out a pricing plan for you?

KiwiShotz

Panasonic DMC-FZ20

01/23/2006 02:14:01 PM · #13

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Personally, that attitude would make me work hard TO STEAL HIS JOB...

Sure. That's the nature of the commercial world. He will also of course do everything in his power to steal yours. As hard as that is, you do your very best, win some, loose some and so grow and harden with that knowledge and experience.

Nuno, seeking help is of course the right thing to do, I just think you were a tad insensitive in who you asked.

Brett

paddles

Pentax K10D

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

01/23/2006 11:36:31 PM · #14

Hmmm, that's interesting, because I've read a couple of books written by professional photographers who argued that new photographers *should* seek the advice of local professionals when starting out, and it is in the professionals' best interest to at least give some guidance, so you don't suddenly have a new player on the field who is charging half what everyone else does - because it makes the others look like they are ripping people off, and because the new photographer may learn the hard way that they are not charging enough to cover costs and make a living of it.

Thoughts, particularly from the pros out there?

lentil

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

01/23/2006 11:39:11 PM · #15

Originally posted by paddles:

i have heard the same thing

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

01/23/2006 11:44:37 PM · #16

Sometimes I charge lots of money for shoots.
Sometimes I still work for free for magazines if they refuse to pay but it will be good exposure for me.
If another photographer contacted me and asked how much that magazine paid me, I wouldn't tell them because frankly it would be embarassing!