Canon 350D or Nikon D70s - yet again!

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX Aspherical DG DF RF for Canon

10/02/2005 09:45:02 AM · #1

Hi - having read ALL (and I mean ALL!) of the posts on this topic, I wanted to ask your comments on the conclusion I have drawn. More of a sanity check rather than re-starting the debate. So here it is:

What is important for me:
1. Weight - I travel a lot, so carrying a big camera is not what I want.
2. Camera cost - I don't want to pay a king's ransom for something that seems to me to be out-dated after 18 months - 2 years.
3. Resolution - I like turning my photos into posters. I also like it that I have more cropping opportunities without a very noticeable drop in image quality.
4. Lens cost - I figured what I don't pay in camera cost, I should pay in lens costs, as these have a longer life.
5. Sharp images - I know this is what everyone looks for, and I am thinking that if I spend more on the lenses, I should achieve this. Currently I have a Canon PowershotPro1 which is driving me to despair...a snail will have passed before the autofocus has locked in.

So, with that in mind, I'm thinking of getting the Canon 350D / Rebel XT with 2 lenses:
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM and
Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

The main reason so not choosing the D70s was the resolution and that it is bigger to have to carry around.

I'd really appreciate any comments you have about my selection.

Sam
(//images.tigley.com)

petrakka

10/02/2005 09:47:49 AM · #2

resolution btwn 6 and 8 mp is pretty negligible. They're both good, I got the d70 over the rebel and a big reason was that it was more comfortable to hold, it felt more like a real camera.

yido

Canon EOS-5D

10/02/2005 09:50:43 AM · #3

Forget the weight differnce of the cameras. If you plan on walking around with such heavy lenses, then the small difference in the weight between the D79 and the XT will not be noticible.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

10/02/2005 09:54:07 AM · #4

Very valid point yido. It's these sorts of comments I was looking for. Thanks.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

10/02/2005 11:17:35 AM · #5

Bottom line, either system will give you great performance. The thing is, you're really buying into a system, and you'll be very reluctant to change after you have invested in multiple lenses.
Consider which system seems to have the lenses you feel will support your particular photographic needs, and buy into that system.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

10/02/2005 11:22:20 AM · #6

Also, if you haven't already done so, go to a shop where you can play with each. Whichever one feels better should be the one to get. If it doesn't feel right you're not going to feel comfortable using it.

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

10/02/2005 03:48:20 PM · #7

I hate to be the devil advocate here, but I would also take a hard look at Olympus. I've shot Nikon since the early eighties, and the D70 is a wonderful camera. But if weight is major consideration I'd give the four thirds system a look. I bought an e-300 after a backpacking trip with my D70s and long glass kept me from being mobile enough. I now use the Olympus for telephoto work & Nikon for wide angle to normal stuff. It saved me aprox 5 lbs off my total system weight. If you went with just Olympus you could have an extremely light set up for less money than a Nikon or canon rig. Many will come back with the "Olympus is not that great at higher ISOs", but their lenses tend to be faster than comparable focal length glass from Canon & Nikon so it balances out. Check out the new E-500 Evolt. It looks like it will be a great camera.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

10/02/2005 04:13:10 PM · #8

Thanks for everyone's comments so far! I took your advice cpanaioti and headed to a store on Times Square (my nearest!), where apart from pestering to buy then-and-there, did let me have a brief hold of both the 350D and the D70s. Petrakka, you are SO right, the D70 does feel like its more of a camera (sorry other 350D users). My little finger felt 'left out' when holding the 350D.
Now I've gone from having my mind almost made up, back to the drawing board!
While I was in there, I also saw the 20D which feels great, but I haven't done my homework - so a bit more reading to do there first. Considering yido's comment..I'd been looking for a camera I can travel with, but as soon as I start looking a big lenses, the whole lot goes out the window. Until Hyperfocal's comment. Yet another possibility to add to the mix.
I seem to had arrived at the same point as many other forum posters....choice!
Kirbic (or anyone)...can I ask: if I am looking to get good 'people' shots while travelling, what could be the best lenses for me?
[Aware now I've changed this post from one about cameras to one about lenses...oh dear...how my thoughts are wandering!]

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

10/02/2005 04:49:40 PM · #9

Originally posted by samchad:

the D70 does feel like its more of a camera (sorry other 350D users). My little finger felt 'left out' when holding the 350D.

While I was in there, I also saw the 20D which feels great, but I haven't done my homework - so a bit more reading to do there first. Considering yido's comment..

The D70 may feel better than the plastic rebel but the quality you get out of the rebel will show you why you're paying only for the feel of the nikon. Having said that, the 20D blows both out of the water, but it's not exactly in the same price bracket or intended for the same market as either.

Damian

Nikon D200

10/02/2005 05:10:19 PM · #10

Originally posted by riot:

Originally posted by samchad:
the D70 does feel like its more of a camera (sorry other 350D users). My little finger felt 'left out' when holding the 350D.

While I was in there, I also saw the 20D which feels great, but I haven't done my homework - so a bit more reading to do there first. Considering yido's comment..

The D70 may feel better than the plastic rebel but the quality you get out of the rebel will show you why you're paying only for the feel of the nikon. Having said that, the 20D blows both out of the water, but it's not exactly in the same price bracket or intended for the same market as either.

Feel of the Nikon? You are paying for fantastic image quality and features.

Nikolai1024

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f2.8-4.0D

10/02/2005 05:14:43 PM · #11

Originally posted by Damian:

Originally posted by riot:

Originally posted by samchad:
the D70 does feel like its more of a camera (sorry other 350D users). My little finger felt 'left out' when holding the 350D.

While I was in there, I also saw the 20D which feels great, but I haven't done my homework - so a bit more reading to do there first. Considering yido's comment..

The D70 may feel better than the plastic rebel but the quality you get out of the rebel will show you why you're paying only for the feel of the nikon. Having said that, the 20D blows both out of the water, but it's not exactly in the same price bracket or intended for the same market as either.

Feel of the Nikon? You are paying for fantastic image quality and features.

Exactly! D70 felt so much better than Rebel. So that is what I went with. I have no regrets.

Nick

nico_blue

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/02/2005 05:18:56 PM · #12

Originally posted by samchad:

1. Weight - I travel a lot, so carrying a big camera is not what I want.
2. Camera cost - I don't want to pay a king's ransom for something that seems to me to be out-dated after 18 months - 2 years.
3. Resolution - I like turning my photos into posters. I also like it that I have more cropping opportunities without a very noticeable drop in image quality.
4. Lens cost - I figured what I don't pay in camera cost, I should pay in lens costs, as these have a longer life.
5. Sharp images - I know this is what everyone looks for, and I am thinking that if I spend more on the lenses, I should achieve this. Currently I have a Canon PowershotPro1 which is driving me to despair...a snail will have passed before the autofocus has locked in.

1. Weight - 350D wins, plus its smaller... you can actually shoot with one hand with the 350D!
2. Cost - 350D wins
3. Resolution - 350D wins (there is actually a big difference between 6 and 8 megapixels when you work with full size images. Plus you get the option of cropping down to 6 megapixels, etc)
4. Lens cost - I dont know how much nikkor lenses cost, but 3rd party lenses are usually around the same price.
5. Sharpness - Depends on lens

Overall winner - 350D

I have a 350D and i love it, i have never felt limited by its capabilities. It is such a great camera!

edit - read through some of the pro D70 comments. The way i hold my 350D is with the thumb on the back the 4th finger on the shutter button, the two next fingers on the grip and the pinky curled under the camera acting like a vice. the 350D feels really comfortable in my hands, i thought the D70 was too big when i played with it.

Message edited by author 2005-10-02 21:24:24.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

10/02/2005 06:04:25 PM · #13

Originally posted by riot:

Having said that, the 20D blows both out of the water, but it's not exactly in the same price bracket or intended for the same market as either.

You are right - I'm just a sucker for falling for cameras that cost just a bit more than I can afford!

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

10/03/2005 05:41:34 AM · #14

Originally posted by samchad:

Originally posted by riot:
Having said that, the 20D blows both out of the water, but it's not exactly in the same price bracket or intended for the same market as either.

You are right - I'm just a sucker for falling for cameras that cost just a bit more than I can afford!

Champagne taste, beer income.

blemt

Nikon D70

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

10/03/2005 05:52:45 AM · #15

Buying any camera is more than just technical specs. You have to get something that works for you on all levels.

I took the 350xt on a test shoot when it first came out. I loved the images I got, but the erganomics were just wrong for me. I didn't like the feeling of my hand falling off the grip.

The 20D is a great camera, and I could have been very happy with it except for the design. I have tendonitis in my right wrist. It physically hurts to use the control dial on the camera back. It's fine with the battery grip, but that adds size and weight.

If I was buying now, I probably would have gotten the Maxxum 7D. That's the best feeling camera I ever held. But for when I bought, the D70 worked best for me.

None of the SLR cameras out there these days are total junk. Each one has strengths and weaknesses. Find out what the weak spots are, make sure you can live with them, and you should have minimal issues.

Clara

joezl

Nikon D200

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

10/03/2005 05:53:14 AM · #16

The comment above about the weight of the lenses was a good one.

Buy whichever feels best in your hands (if possible try it with the lens you'll use most). Whichever you buy you'll be happy with it and buying the other one instead won't make a blind bit of difference to your photography.

As for it not being overtaken by new technology in two years, I'm afraid nobody can help you with that - but it really doesn't matter a damn. Personally, I'd be very happy to take photographs a tenth as good as Ansell Adams - and look at what technology he was using by today's standards.

Have fun.

yido

Canon EOS-5D

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX Aspherical DG DF RF for Canon

10/03/2005 08:17:30 PM · #17

I have held and shot the D70, 20D, but not the XT.
If you are interested in having a camera that "feels like a real camera" the I'd recommend either the Canon 1D series or the Nikon D2 series. :)

Now, to your point, if you are interested in a good feeling camera, I'd say 20D, then D70s, then XT. Fist is the price, 20D costs a lot more than either the XT or the D70s. If the extra features are worth it to you, then fine. The XT and the 20D has same imaging processing qualities, except the ISO 3200 and more robust performance. Canon's allow for a grip, which doubles your battery life. Very important if you plan on using IS, as they suck up battery life. With Nikon, you cannot get a factory grip. There are aftermarket grips, but they use the IR sensor and don't let you half shutter press to focus and expose, I think.

If you are interested in having a small camera that can double and carry big lenses, then I'd recommend either of the Canons. While you travel, no grip and an all-in-one lens like Tamron/Sigma 18-200 without a hood will do well and barely get noticed. If you are going to put on a big lens and really go shooting, then a grip with an extra battery to power the camera and offer better grip/balance will be fine.

I'd say if you are money conscientious, an XT (I like silver) with a grip. If you want more substantial camera and can afford it, the 20D.

As for lenses for portraits, it's a very personal question. Some like a wide zoom like the 17-40L for environmental portraits to include most of the person and the scene to add context to the shot. Going from short to long, other prefer a 50mm prime, 85mm prime, 135mm prime, 70-200L zoom. For candid portraits, I like a Sigma 50-500 at the long end so I can get sneaky candid portraits, really tight, without them noticing. If it's too crowded and if I'm going for a more environmental portraits, then I'll use my Tamron 17-35. If it's posed, I like the 70-200 zoom, as it allows flexibility in composition.

Good luck with your search.

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

10/03/2005 08:27:17 PM · #18

Just curious Sam, have you updated (or are you on) the most recent firmware for your Pro1? I flashed mine with the updated firmware and it cut just about all times in half from AF to Shutter Lag etc...

Not steering you away from a dSLR (creatively it was the best move I have made) but the Pro1 (still have mine) is a lot more enjoyable with the updated firmware.

Firmware is last Item on this page...

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

10/04/2005 12:30:33 PM · #19

Hi Andy. No I haven't updated any firmware....mostly because I don't know how.
Just visited the link and I get a javascript error when I click on it. I presume it's a file I have to download, but once I've saved it to my PC, what should I do next?

In fact, when I click on it a window opens and then disappears.

Message edited by author 2005-10-04 16:32:15.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

10/04/2005 12:34:10 PM · #20

Originally posted by samchad:

You would probably upload to your memory card using a reader. Insert the card back in the camera and following the directions in your instruction book. A couple button pushes and you can probably confirm that the new version is up and running.

LeeD

Canon EOS-30D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/04/2005 12:36:33 PM · #21

Originally posted by samchad:

...Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

!!!!!!!!

Tell you what... get that lens and let me hold on to it while you make up your mind.

BTW, FWIW, IMHO... I love the XT!

10/05/2005 06:29:07 AM · #22

OK - regarding the firmware - I finally found the correct link (in case there are other Powershot Pro1 users that find this post in a search):
//consumer.usa.canon.com:80/ir/controller?act=SecondRedirectAct&nav=second&fileURL=//web.canon.jp/Imaging/pspro1/firmware-e.html&type=DNLD

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

10/06/2005 05:22:17 AM · #23

Originally posted by awpollard:

A MASSIVE thank you. Just successfully installed the firmware update....what an incredible speed difference!! Thank you again.

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/06/2005 05:44:52 AM · #24

Originally posted by samchad:

Originally posted by awpollard:
Just curious Sam, have you updated (or are you on) the most recent firmware for your Pro1? I flashed mine with the updated firmware and it cut just about all times in half from AF to Shutter Lag etc...

Not steering you away from a dSLR (creatively it was the best move I have made) but the Pro1 (still have mine) is a lot more enjoyable with the updated firmware.

Firmware is last Item on this page...

A MASSIVE thank you. Just successfully installed the firmware update....what an incredible speed difference!! Thank you again.

NP...

I think I too was at the edge of frustration of speeds just as that firmware can out...

The Canon "L" glass used in the Pro1 makes it an unbeatable Point and Shoot cam for pic quality and color saturation. I probably don't need to mention how wicked awesome Super Macro mode is... with the firmware upgrade you should get a few more miles out of it :)

Mine is still kicking about here as my second cam, and if you really want to get out there and touch someone this Canon 1.5x TC/adapter will get you there. Tack sharp about somewhere around 12x zoom (more "L" glass in the Canon TC) I did an airshow on time with this and was too close to the action... :) (Wasn't cheap when I got it (@ $199 but may have come down now)