To validate or not? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

03/12/2005 02:31:12 PM · #1

I've seen a couple of posts about pre validation and am thinking about pre validation for my lines challenge. Now, I'd love to have someone request it gets validated (kudos) but wonder if my score would be better if it was pre validated or even if it would be worse?

Any thoughts?

nico_blue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/12/2005 02:33:10 PM · #2

its pretty much impossible to tell except if you ran a trial with two control groups and compared the results afterwards.

TommyMoe21

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/12/2005 02:35:32 PM · #3

Originally posted by nico_blue:

its pretty much impossible to tell except if you ran a trial with two control groups and compared the results afterwards.

I had one that got a 5.19 before validated and 6.5 after. See my billboard entry and the thread I started before that challenge.

Ecce_Signum

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

03/12/2005 02:44:30 PM · #4

Thanks Tom, have made my request so will wait and see :)

kearock

Nikon D90

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

03/12/2005 03:04:15 PM · #5

Aren't we supposed to be voting on all photos as if they were legal, regardless of whether validation has been requested? If a shot is legal or not is for the SC to decide, not the voters. Just because you think something might be illegal is not reason to vote it down, as it may very well be entirely legal and you just aren't familiar with the technique used. If something appears illegal, the instructions say to send a validation request to the SC and then vote as if the photo is legal. If the photo turns out to be illegal it will be removed, so there's no reason to vote something down until you see the little red "this photo has been validated". That's why the system exists the way it does. If people are playing by those rules, there's no reason a score should shoot up after validation. Why do people waste their time going back to see if it's been validated or removed and re-voting?

In regards to pre-validation: Is true pre-validation an option? I know you can get one or two SC member's opinions by PMing them, but I didn't think there was a way to get the "This photo has been validated" stamp ahead of time. And I thought the point of pre-checking with an SC member about a photo is to make sure you have done everything legally (i.e. asking if something would be construed as removing a major element, etc.), not to prove to them or the community that you can do cool things with your camera.

I apologize if I'm being overly harsh here, but somehow this all seems silly to me.

TommyMoe21

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/12/2005 03:11:11 PM · #6

Originally posted by kearock:

In regards to pre-validation: Is true pre-validation an option?

Nope

Ecce_Signum

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

03/12/2005 03:11:52 PM · #7

Originally posted by kearock:

Aren't we supposed to be voting on all photos as if they were legal,...

Yes we are but apperently no we don't.

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

03/15/2005 10:42:44 AM · #8

i was looking back through the surrealism photos and i see that some of them are still under validation..why does it take so long?

03/15/2005 10:53:56 AM · #9

Originally posted by kearock:

In regards to pre-validation: Is true pre-validation an option?

Sure, you can request an admin note at any time after the voting starts (click on the Challenges menu, then your photo to see the link). You can also PM the Site Council for an opinion or vote before the voting starts.

Canon EF 28-200 f/3.5 - 5.6 USM

03/15/2005 10:54:49 AM · #10

Originally posted by queanbeez:

i was looking back through the surrealism photos and i see that some of them are still under validation..why does it take so long?

How do you know the photos are still being validated?

thelucas

Canon PowerShot A85

04/02/2005 03:38:11 AM · #11

EXACTLY, my photo from the "in the beginning" just rocketed after having been validated by the DPC team. I think this is rather strange. BTW, how do people get to know that the validation has been requested? I dont see this information anywhere on the photo page. thank you

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

04/02/2005 03:40:25 AM · #12

i thought it says it under the photo

Originally posted by thelucas:

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

04/02/2005 03:42:14 AM · #13

i see one with clouds that has been validated

clarmore

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-210mm f/4.0-5.6D

04/02/2005 06:16:44 AM · #14

After viewing this thread this morning I decided to submit my own photo for validation... my scores went from 3-5 to now 7-8. I was getting comments that a grape was missing so I had it validated. Wow! what a difference! I think people were quickly glancing at my photo and now that it was validated they take an extra second to look at it.

TLL061

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/02/2005 06:19:54 AM · #15

this challenge was the first time i challenged a photo , i just had to . it looked so fake

Message edited by author 2005-04-02 11:20:08.

04/02/2005 06:28:30 AM · #16

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kearock:
In regards to pre-validation: Is true pre-validation an option?

Sure, you can request an admin note at any time after the voting starts (click on the Challenges menu, then your photo to see the link). You can also PM the Site Council for an opinion or vote before the voting starts.

My understanding is that you can make the request but your image will not have the red "been validated" text added to it until some voter requests a DQ and the SC rules it legal. The purpose of this procedure is to make provision for people who will not be able to supply an original file in a timely fashion while a DQ request is being processed because of travel, etc. Think of it as a "pre-submission of original file" procedure rather than a "pre-validation" procedure.

To use the procedure merely to try to get the red text attached to an image in hopes of boosting it's score is an abuse of the system. Such use should be strongly discouraged so that it does not give reinforcement to the voter's tendancy to disregard the rule about voting all images as if they were legal. If they see an increase in that kind of abuse the SC may have no choice but to remove the procedure, and that would leave the travellers out in the cold.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

04/02/2005 06:37:15 AM · #17

Originally posted by coolhar:

...My understanding is that you can make the request but your image will not have the red "been validated" text added to it until some voter requests a DQ and the SC rules it legal. The purpose of this procedure is to make provision for people who will not be able to supply an original file in a timely fashion while a DQ request is being processed because of travel, etc. Think of it as a "pre-submission of original file" procedure rather than a "pre-validation" procedure.

To use the procedure merely to try to get the red text attached to an image in hopes of boosting it's score is an abuse of the system. Such use should be strongly discouraged so that it does not give reinforcement to the voter's tendancy to disregard the rule about voting all images as if they were legal. If they see an increase in that kind of abuse the SC may have no choice but to remove the procedure, and that would leave the travellers out in the cold.

Actually, it's not considered abuse of the system to request validiation if the user genuinely feels that their shot will be questioned for editing legality. We will look at the proof and validate it just as if there was a DQ request by another user.
We will not, however, consider validation requests where there is no stated, valid reason to do so.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-210mm f/4.0-5.6D

04/02/2005 07:17:19 AM · #18

Originally posted by kirbic:

Well, obviously I was wrong about the procedure's intended use. I need to find out more about this before I can make a conclusion. But first impression is that this expansion of the procedure's uses leaves it even more open to being used to boost scores.

clarmore

Nikon D300

04/02/2005 07:21:20 AM · #19

I only requested because I received comments that my photo did not meet the challenge requirements... so I knew people were voting it as such (instead of requesting validation). I would not have thought people couldn't see the fifth grape- so I requested validation so people knew that my photo did meet the requirements.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/02/2005 07:48:03 AM · #20

Originally posted by clarmore:

I take that to mean that your concern was not about an illegal editing issue, but rather about voters questioning how well your entry met the challenge. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought that it was valid to vote an entry lower if you felt it did not meet the challenge topic. Hasn't the policy always been to let the voters decide what meets the challenge because not meeting the challenge is not the same as violating the editing rules. Has that changed too?

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

04/02/2005 07:52:44 AM · #21

Originally posted by coolhar:

Originally posted by clarmore:
I only requested because I received comments that my photo did not meet the challenge requirements... so I knew people were voting it as such (instead of requesting validation). I would not have thought people couldn't see the fifth grape- so I requested validation so people knew that my photo did meet the requirements.

I take that to mean that your concern was not about an illegal editing issue, but rather about voters questioning how well your entry met the challenge. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought that it was valid to vote an entry lower if you felt it did not meet the challenge topic. Hasn't the policy always been to let the voters decide what meets the challenge because not meeting the challenge is not the same as violating the editing rules. Has that changed too?

For the Duck challenge, not meeting the challenge can lead to a DQ, therefor admin note procedures are also slightly adjusted.

04/02/2005 07:56:42 AM · #22

OK, I see my mistake now. I was overlooking the Extra Rules for the Rubber Ducky challenge--"Failure to meet the challenge should result in DQ."

But I am still wondering about the wisdom of using the Admin Note for more than a travellers' provision.

04/02/2005 07:59:59 AM · #23

The admin note request itself indicates that you may submit your own image for validation. "Do you feel that your submission might receive some disqualification requests? If so, you can Request an Admin Note for your image."

I rarely see any significant boost in the score after doing so, but I probably get fewer 1 votes. I think of it as preventing abuse of the system (by the voters) rather than an effort to increase a score. If voters actually scored all shots as if were legal like they're supposed to, then there would be little reason to request an Admin Note.

04/02/2005 08:43:22 AM · #24

Originally posted by scalvert:

You are not typical, or representative.

In a normal challenge, with no Extra Rule, do you get the red text as soon as SC rules on legality, or does there have to be a DQ request from a voter before it gets displayed with your shot?

I've never used it and my scores can always use a boost, even a small one. Maybe I should rethink this. How hard is it to convince SC that you have a valid concern about being questioned on editing legality?