Unusual portrait lighting - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

01/03/2005 07:28:00 AM · #1

This is one of those shots that I seem to like despite the fact that there are a couple of "problems". I'm am curious how others will react.

We were shooting outdoors in early morning light. Sun was low and to my left and there was a gold reflector low and to the right. In this case the reflector was back a bit too far which created some unusal shadows on the subject's face. We were working on shots for her portfolio, would you use or discard?

cbeller

Nikon D300

01/03/2005 07:38:55 AM · #2

I honestly don't think the shadow is that bad at all. I love the gold reflector (my fav to use) look. One nit pick, you might want to clean up the hot spots on the teeth. Other than that, I think this is an excellent shot.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED VR

01/03/2005 08:21:45 AM · #3

Originally posted by cbeller:

... I love the gold reflector (my fav to use) look. ...

Thanks Chris! This was the first time I used the gold reflector and I liked it alot. There were some other shots on a set of concrete steps that faced away from the sun. I used the cold reflector to light up Katie and that left the stairs a nice cold blue gray.

SummerBreeze

Canon EOS-30D

01/03/2005 08:30:25 AM · #4

I like it too, it gives the face a nice golden glow, well done!

BADDBOYY21

Nikon D300

01/03/2005 12:14:11 PM · #5

I definitely like this photo. The lighting is great IMO.

brianlh

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/03/2005 12:18:49 PM · #6

not sure, but curious as to whether or not people who will be hiring models might pick at this or not. obviously it's a shadow from the jacket, but just wonder how they factor (or don't factor) that into play.

Jinjit

01/03/2005 12:28:31 PM · #7

I really like this. I find the lighting to be very appealing and glorious.
I think the model is beautiful and the picture certainly shows that!

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/03/2005 12:38:22 PM · #8

The gold reflector is a very nice tool for sure. The lighting is lovely, but... that shadow on her jaw HAS GOT TO GO if this is a portfolio/professional shot. You can easily fix it in photoshop, btw.

Robt.

KevinRiggs

Canon EOS-1Ds

01/03/2005 12:46:10 PM · #9

This is so close to perfect with the lighting, the catchlights and the expression of the subject that I don't think it would hurt her portfolio as I've seen worse but I do think it could hurt yours. That dark shadow on the jawline is a minor part of an otherwise wonderful portrait. If you knock it out you'll have a super shot for both of you. I wouldn't mess with any of the other shadows as I think they add depth to the shot.

Also, I like the shot and what you've done with it but I'd knock the warm tones down by just a hair; not much but just a little. Of course, people may think that I shoot too cool. You work this to your desires and the model's needs but I thought I'd just toss that in.

Fantastic shot. Did you find her on OMP?

Kev

Message edited by author 2005-01-03 17:47:13.

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

01/03/2005 12:48:18 PM · #10

Okay, keep in mind I think she's very attractive.

The light has a certain flood-light quality, I still like it. But, her eyebrows are mushed down, the way her hair is blown back elongates her forehead and the big jacket hides any sight of a hot body.

It's a good portrait, but maybe not the best for her portfolio.

Message edited by author 2005-01-03 17:51:42.

cbeller

Nikon D300

01/03/2005 12:53:36 PM · #11

Originally posted by GoldBerry:

Okay, keep in mind I think she's very attractive.

The light is neat but has about as much warmth as a floodlight, ya know?
Also, her eyebrows are all mushed down, the way her hair blows back elongates her forehead and the big jacket doesn't exactly scream "I've got a good bod under here".

Again, it's a good portrait, but maybe not the best for her portfolio.

Unless it's cold outside and you're shooting a winter fashion style of photo. Somebody has to model the winter coats in catalogs. Maybe she is looking to do print work, where this would work perfectly for her portfolio.

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Super Wide Angle Zoom

01/03/2005 12:56:25 PM · #12

Originally posted by cbeller:

... where this would work perfectly for her portfolio.

well yea, I think we've all had this conversation before. Again the type of modelling work is a big factor. Still, the coat aside, there are parts of this shot that might not work in her favor.

Message edited by author 2005-01-03 17:57:05.

swagman

Nikon D200

01/03/2005 01:41:15 PM · #13

I wouldn't use this as a portfolio shot, mainly because of the shadow caused by the coat's collar. Agencies and photographers will be looking at her face, and the shadow mars a significant part of it.

If you do use it, whiten her teeth...

Message edited by author 2005-01-03 18:42:09.

JPR

Sony Alpha a55

01/03/2005 02:27:41 PM · #14

I think the lighting and her facial expression are lovely and the shadow from the jacket can easily be removed in photoshop. However, my eye immediately goes to her upper left forehead (well, her upper right..you know what I mean), which I think is very bad. This is clearly not an error on your part, it's just the way her hair grows, but it is accentuated by the fact that the hair on the other side of the middle part is down. For this reason alone I would not include it in her portfolio.

01/03/2005 03:12:02 PM · #15

First of all, thanks for all of the fantastic comments! I'll make sure I return the favor.

bear_music... Any hints on killing that shadow would be greatly appreciated. I tried with levels and a mask, but I'm clearly missing something.

Kevin... thanks again for taking the time to comment. After posting I went back to the image and backed off the red a bit, it was definitely too warm. The model is a friends daughter and she isn't in OMP yet. Once we get a decent set of images I'll help her great a portfolio there.

GoldBerry... Always love your comments and advice related to working with models! This was one of the marginal shots for the set, so I'm really hoping I'll get some feedback from you on the shots that I thought were good. The coat is definitely a problem and maybe we won't be able to use any of these in her portfolio. It was about 19 degrees and windy, so we couldn't lighten up on the clothing... maybe this is Minnesota fashion? Thanks again for the straight forward honest advice.

JPR... I had not even noticed the forehead. Now I'll need to look through the rest of the shots to make sure it's not an issue.

01/03/2005 10:59:15 PM · #16

Nusbaum,

Here's a quick and dirty take on it, using the healing brush tool on the shadow. Select out the lower part of the face, excluce lips and teeth from election, then work on that area, carefully, with the healing brush and the clone tool.

Whitened the teeth while I was at it. Used a very slight amount of blur in some of the harsher skin areas. Whitened the corbers of the eyes.

This could be done better on the higher-res image and with more time & care, of course; but as you can see it will work.

Robt.

Jinjit

01/03/2005 11:21:30 PM · #17

Robert please forgive me, but I don't like your version of this shot.
You took all the glamour out! Your version looks flat and looses all the amazing effects the unique lighting and golden reflections added to this picture.
Not the shadows nor the light reflections and tiny "hot-spots" distructed my eye from the beautiful face.
I have found this picture to be perfect as it was. No need to "fix" anything. Sometimes, what we usually consider to be imperfections, simply add to a picture, and make it perfect in a whole.

Hey, but that's just me...

01/03/2005 11:54:15 PM · #18

Jin,

He asked me how to do it, so I did it. But I don't see how you figure I removed "all the amazing effects", as the only significant change I made was to remove an anomalous shadow that was bothering even the photographer, plus whiten the teeth. Both of these, inicentally, are an absolute requirement if the shot is to be used professionally by either the model or the photographer.

Look at it this way; professionally speaking, anytime you shoot an outdoor shot that has shadows thrown UPWARDS from below (which is what the "offending" shadow was) you have a technical problem. The rework, done quickly on a low-res version of the shot, was to point the way re: how the task could be accomplished, In the old days, if this were film and a magazine wanted to use the shot, they'd have brought in an airbrush artist (they all had 'em on staff) to retouch away that shadow.

As a personal, aesthetic judgment, I can't dispute your preference for the original, nor would I attempt to.

Robt.

Jinjit

01/04/2005 01:11:58 AM · #19

Originally posted by bear_music:

...But I don't see how you figure I removed "all the amazing effects" ...

First, let me start by saying that I have no experience nor understanding of the professional modeling photography. All I say is based on my personal preferences, which - as you said - do not worth disputing.

I just felt I should explain what I ment in the sentence that you quoted:
The "amazing effect" for me is the effect that the light played on the model's face.
You cloned off the sparks of light from her lips. For me those golden sparks played an important role in the picture. They enhanced the sparks of her eyes, they simply made her glow and the whole picture came to life. Without them, the picture became flat. the unique-ness of the golden light was just gone into mediocrity. I felt the special feeling this image gave me - was just gone.

Maybe it's un-professional and even silly of me to "pick" on such a tiny detail and make it so important, but this is definately one of my favorite portraits, and I have found it beautiful as it was.

After some more careful look, I agree that the white teeth look good but it looks un-naturally fixed. After all, take a white surface and project yellow light on it - and it will become yellow. It will not remain white.
As for the shadow itself - yes, I agree it improves. But this is the only correction that I would add.

In any case, thank you for your enlighting comment :-)

01/04/2005 02:18:15 AM · #20

OK, jin;

We've met right in the middle. I quite agree that from a human aesthetic these elements (especially the lip shine) might enhance the image, although I'm not sure ANY woman would want to be seen with yellow teeth, gold reflector notwithstanding.

But Nusbaum was querying us about a professional, or at least semi-professional, model shot. It might go in her portfolio, it might go in his. In either case, the portfolio "sells" the person, be it photographer or model. Photographers and models alike get incredibly anal about their portfolios, with good reason. It's a tough marketplace, and the people who receive submitted portfolios and select photographers will dismiss from consideration out-of-hand any photographer who does not seem to have control of the "details" of his/her work, unless theat photographer is incredibly creative and interesting.

In the marketplace virtually every succesful photographerhas the basics down pat, and most of them have nailed a number of the finer points too. A true professional photographer is more likely to be one that pays serious attention to all the tiny things that can make or break an image. When you're working with a client on a shoot you may have half a dozen people all giving you input, some of it wildly contradictory, and you have to collate all that input and produce a detailed, professional photograph that has no technical flaws and still answers everyone's expectations. it can be absolute hell.

The "popular" image of a professional photographer as an intensely creative, artistic free spirit who is given free rein to "create" could hardly be further from the truth. All of us are artists, sure, but God is in the details, and so is the money.

This is not a rant directed at you, by the way; I'm waiting to take my car in to be serviced and just running my mouth on a familiar topic. Thanks for listening :-)

Robt.