Discover Freedom - DPChallenge Forums

03/13/2003 05:52:42 AM · #276

Originally posted by Geocide:

achiral, your ideals never cease to amaze me.

Short of being as strict as some a our middle east neabours i don't see how it's a wise solution to stop an enitre continent from having sex. Sex isn't evil (IMHO). It is dangerious.

not what i meant at all. lisa likes to twist my words to make me sound like some extremist. it's hardly extremist. i'm just pointing out that when it comes to the spread of disease. abstinence and talking with your partner is the only way to prevent unwanted pregnancies and spread of disease. why is that so extreme? it's true. go have sex, what do i care. you can hump animals for all i care, after all we're all animals anyway. do whatever to anyone, i don't care, i'm just talking about the only true way to prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy.

Originally posted by geocide:

Abstenence isn't working in our high schools, what makes you think its going to work in another culture?

this is not a valid argument because how do you know it won't work? you can't just dicount something because of an assumed lack of positive outcomes

Originally posted by geocide:

AIDS is a pandemic, if it was treated the way 9/11 was treated, then the drugs would not be too expensive for any country to afford. Remember what happened when companies tried to benifit off the death of all of those victums? They were very much frowned upon. The AIDS pandemic kills that hunreds of times the number people who died on 9/11.

i agree with you on this. the only thing i would add to this is that there are no drugs that cure or stop the spread of AIDS

Originally posted by geocide:

For those of you who are reupublican or right wing at all, you better be careful or you'll find youself with out your cheap labor and you'll have to do some work yourself (that last comment was tounge and cheek)

funny guy

lisae

Olympus C-720UZ

03/13/2003 06:13:02 AM · #277

Good post Mag!

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/13/2003 06:25:47 AM · #278

hey mag what's up man, thanks for joining in. please take no offense to anything i'm about to say, it is absolutely nothing personal, and we can still respect each other's photography. haha

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

i am an american citizen. i didnt vote for bush, though. he never seemed to have the intellectual or experiential credentials to be a good president of this country. note that i dont generally care about party lines. i just consider each candidate on their merits. i try not to have an emotional response to issues.

there have been much better presidents with less credentials coming into an election than Bush, I really don't think that's the issue.

Originally posted by geocide:

after the voting debacle, and bush took power, i think people assumed he would be pretty low-key and try to make up for the fact that he really wasn't the man the people had elected. of course, he got assertive really quick.

quite the contrary, he has stuck to the basic platform ideals he had when he was running. the only problem is half the country disagreed with him.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

WMD? If they exist why hasnt anyone found them? Why havent the iraqis used them against us or any of their other enemies, previously? why dont any of the other powerful nations of the world have any intelligence about their existence? Their existence seems totally implausible based on those facts. they seem to be a manufactured bugaboo created to drive the agenda of war.

The burden of proof isn't with the inspectors. There are discrepancies between weapons that Iraq says it has now and what it had at the end of the first Gulf War. The point of the inspections is for Iraq to abide by the UN and prevent evidence either of destruction of the Chem and Bio weapons or present those weapons for inspection and ultimately distruction by the inspectors. Iraq has made no attempt to do that. They clearly violated 1441 with its Al Samoud missile system. Instead of France and others in the Veto section of the security council admitting this was a violation of 1441, they say that Iraq is complying. The world community doesn't care about the Al Samoud program, they care about the WMD program, which Iraq to date has done nothing to prove against the existence of such weapons.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

Meanwhile, there are other countries, both neutral and actively hostile that have WMD that everyone has seen and KNOWS about! Yet we are not aggressing against these countries? It doesnt add up.

North Korea is next, then Iran. It has got to be impossible to work on three different diplomatic processes at once with full fervence.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

Connection with Al-Qaeda? Disavowed by both sides, and no real connection has ever been found. Also implausible because of their religious and sectarian differences.

yeah i agree there's no real connection. i wouldn't doubt if it was going on however.

rcrawford

Nikon D300

03/13/2003 06:41:38 AM · #279

Originally posted by lisae:

Originally posted by rcrawford:

So far there is no cure for AIDS and the drugs for treatment are too expensive for the third world to ever hope to get them in the quantities that they are needed and the problem continues to gets worse. This only leaves one possible solution and that is education and the education must consist of the message that abstinence or complete fidelity are the only real weapons that we have in this fight. To me that is a conservative approach.

The Left legitimized promiscuity (think Bill Clinton). Donâ��t misunderstand, there are plenty of promiscuous conservatives but at least they are ashamed if they get caught.

This is a very weird idea that I only ever seem to hear from Americans. It must be the influence of those old puritans still hanging around.

Teaching abstinence has not been shown to work at all, in preventing teenage pregnancies or STDs, or any other outcome. People are going to have sex, always have and always will. If you give people a decent sex education and lots of condoms, you'll actually prevent AIDS. It worked in the west when infection rates dropped after education campaigns kicked in during the late 80s and 90s. Unfortunately, no one kept that education campaign going long enough.

I know a lot of Americans have no idea what sex education is like in other countries. In a normal, government funded school over here we were taught the basics about sex at age 12, and some more advanced things at 17, including all the details about common STDs and risks associated with fetishes, how women get a pap smear, how men get checked for prostate cancer, etc. Only people with extreme religious views ever advocate teaching abstinence in schools here - whether they fall into your categories of "conservative" or "liberal" is irrelevant.

(By the way, our conservative political party is called "the Liberal Party"... so the word "liberal" has a different meaning here.)

Where did you get the idea that my suggestion was based on some religious belief? I'm an engineer and I am very much a data driven person. The data tells me that abstinence or fidelity are your best protection. I have sex all the time just for fun it's great every one should do it. Make love not war! Do the job yourself if your without a partner I don't care but if you do it with someone who has a STD don't come crying to me and don't expect me to pay for your treatment!

As to the price of that treatment, yes I think that the drug companies should not exploit this tragedy to enrich themselves but on the other hand they must be allowed to make a fair profit or they will not be motivated to develop better treatments in the future. Forcing them to give up legitimate patents sounds like more lost freedom coming from the left. How many innovative drugs/treatments have come from socialistic or communistic societies?

Abstinence works every time it is tried. Fidelity leads to a longer happier and heather life and that is a fact not some religious ideal.

03/13/2003 06:56:42 AM · #280

A 15-year-old boy living in Botswana has a 90 percent chance of dying of HIV/AIDS during his lifetime, according to latest analysis of World Health Organisation.
//allafrica.com/stories/200303100980.html

Imagine that if your son had these chances...You'd do what you can to edcate your son and to change the panidemic. He's hardly comming crying to you.

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 11:59:58.

03/13/2003 06:58:46 AM · #281

Originally posted by rcrawford:

Where did you get the idea that my suggestion was based on some religious belief?

I believe that practice is called Pigeon-Holeing

03/13/2003 07:02:04 AM · #282

Oh, for those of you that think that AIDS is a black problem or a Gay problem regard the following link (about americans):

//www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#cumrace
//www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#exposure

03/13/2003 07:14:25 AM · #283

Originally posted by Geocide:

Oh, for those of you that think that AIDS is a black problem or a Gay problem regard the following link (about americans):

//www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#cumrace
//www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#exposure

where did anyone say they think it's a black or homosexual problem only?

03/13/2003 07:30:27 AM · #284

Oh i wasn't accusing...i just hear this arguement alot around these parts of the US.

It was a preemptive comment, if you will. hehehe

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 12:30:50.

03/13/2003 07:31:44 AM · #285

arcial, how do you like your camera? Is it everything you wanted?

03/13/2003 07:33:36 AM · #286

Originally posted by Geocide:

arcial, how do you like your camera? Is it everything you wanted?

it's great for macros. i'm already itching to get a dslr. i think i'm going to because I'd like to start taking pics at white sox and bears games.

how's yours?

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 12:35:59.

03/13/2003 08:07:08 AM · #287

It's good but i constantly am having focus problems...it's difficult to get a good sharp photo. Then again, i just got it so, i just have to learn how it works...

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

03/13/2003 08:29:39 AM · #288

What do you all think should happen with N korea?

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

03/13/2003 08:54:16 AM · #289

ach, i didnt expect you to even consider the arguments against the war. not least of which the futility of bankrupting our country over this.

however, the claim that the burden of proof rests with iraq is silly. so you're saying any country we accuse of having evil weapons has to prove that they dont? cool. let's accuse ecuador. i never liked them anyway (just kidding, ecuador!).

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

03/13/2003 09:01:13 AM · #290

if it added up at all, it might be worth throwing away all our resources over it. not to mention all the bloodshed.

but it totally doesnt. even if they violated 1441, that's still not worth the cost.

i think i could support this if it werent just so puzzling. but it doesnt add up AT ALL. and that worries me.

we're going to jeapardize our entire world standing and bankrupt our economy over something that most people just dont see the need for.

that should worry anyone, especially the most patriotic.

03/13/2003 09:15:49 AM · #291

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

well i don't think it will bankrupt our country because oil prices will go back down. it's amazing how much oil effects the economy.

i think it would be good to separate we as in the US from we as in the UN. i think here we are talking about we as in the UN because resolution 1441 was approved 15-0 by the security council, which includes all the countries who have changed their tune since that resolution. why would they ask saddam to disarm if there was no evidence of him being in violation of the agreement he signed at the end of the first Gulf War. this is a world versus Iraq issue, not a US vs Iraq issue, even though that's what the media would have everyone think. the UN has lost all control at this point, and it's sad.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/13/2003 09:36:01 AM · #292

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

see that's just it, there are just as many people who believe that the world will be much more stable without saddam meddling in the mideast. israel and palestinians might actually be able to get something done in their peace process without saddam paying millions to suicide bombers. kuwait won't have to live in fear of being invaded. other countries won't have to worry about an insane dictator, worrying about what he could possible do to them.

if you believe that the UN should be in control of the situation, which I do, it adds up. if the UN fails to act on this in consensus, this may be the last time it is used for situations like this, which sets a terrible precedent. and i will say i support the US going around the UN at this point when countries like France and Russia say they will veto regardless of the proposal brought by the US Spain, or UK, the UN will prove itself incapable of what it was set out to do.

zadore

Canon EOS-5D

03/13/2003 10:05:06 AM · #293

achiral, you have brought some interesting points up lately, and seem to be doing some research...I applaud you for that...really, I do.

I too have been getting much information, and here's something that argues YOUR SIDE of the equation, but with a different perspective. It's a letter from an Iraqi girl living in exile in Britain.

By far this is the ONE thing I have found that makes me think twice about the whole thing...but I still think this should be a 'world' problem, not a 'U.S.' problem.

here's the letter

z

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/13/2003 10:24:42 AM · #294

Originally posted by GeneralE:

BTW: I'm starting a pool: Bechtel's BAGHDAD BILLION$
How much profit will they make rebuilding Iraq after we blow it up?

A partial answer is in this article: Cheney Still Paid By Haliburton

03/13/2003 10:25:53 AM · #295

Originally posted by zadore:

i agree it is a world problem, which the UN when working properly with all countries using just motives would be capable of dealing with. but as i see it now, that will never happen with Iraq. six months into the discussion on Iraq there is only one resolution, 55 missiles destroyed and still many unanswered questions about Iraq's weapons capability. i just don't think the UN is going to prove to be helpful to the world in this crisis. i really don't think the US would be going to war if the UN had spelled out the disarmament process with deadlines for Iraq. now the UK and US have considered bringing up such ammendments to their new proposal, but France has said it will veto any proposal brought that could have triggers for military action in it. that makes a mockery of the system set up in the UN. this goes back to the problem of vetos, which i think needs to be rethought altogether.

and zadore if you would have just given me half the chance i could have explained my position better but in your own words directed at me

Originally posted by zadore:

i know your type and i despise your type.

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 15:26:23.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/13/2003 10:36:52 AM · #296

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

BTW: I'm starting a pool: Bechtel's BAGHDAD BILLION$
How much profit will they make rebuilding Iraq after we blow it up?

A partial answer is in this article: Cheney Still Paid By Haliburton

all that is completely legal. he worked, he got paid for it. pretty standard procedure. no this does not mean you have a case for cheney favoring 'big oil'.

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 15:38:46.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

03/13/2003 10:47:55 AM · #297

Lunch with the Chairman
by Seymour M. Hersh
The New Yorker

10 March 2003

Why was Richard Perle meeting with Adnan Khashoggi?

â��It was normal for us to see Perle,â�� Khashoggi told me. â��We in the Middle East are accustomed to politicians who use their offices for whatever business they want..."

Link To Article

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/13/2003 10:51:53 AM · #298

Originally posted by achiral:

all that is completely legal.... he worked...

I doubt he "worked" as hard as the maid at your local Motel 6. That it is "legal" doesn't make it right. Remember who made the those laws and decided what was "legal" (Hint: Not Christ)

03/13/2003 11:02:15 AM · #299

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by achiral:
all that is completely legal.... he worked...

I doubt he "worked" as hard as the maid at your local Motel 6. That it is "legal" doesn't make it right. Remember who made the those laws and decided what was "legal" (Hint: Not Christ)

man you are one of the most bitter people i have ever heard. it's legal for you to post here but that doesn't make it right. sounds stupid right? i hear an echo.

governments are given to us by God, who is Christ in the trinity. that is if you are a believer.