| Author | Thread |
|
|
06/14/2023 06:20:44 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
IMHO some front page finisers are weak images, and I love some that finished in the bottom 10%. |
Agreed. My take is that at a certain level, it becomes more about mass appeal than taking a good photo. I think if William Eggleston were entering at DPC, he would usually end up near the bottom of most challenges, including "In the style of William Eggleston". |
|
|
|
06/14/2023 08:11:07 AM · #52 |
I'm not sure it's strictly mass appeal... I think it actually has more to do with "immediate appeal." Voters are not at all likely to spend a lot of time examining an entry, so entries that rely for their impact on the viewer taking time to reflect on meaning, or to notice small things are not going to do well. I do notice that high-scoring images tend to be well-composed, well-lit, and nail the challenge topic in a manner which is immediately obvious.
|
|
|
|
06/14/2023 08:42:42 AM · #53 |
| It feels comforting to come 'round and see these conversations are still ongoing. :) |
|
|
|
06/14/2023 08:48:07 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
I'm not sure it's strictly mass appeal... I think it actually has more to do with "immediate appeal." Voters are not at all likely to spend a lot of time examining an entry, so entries that rely for their impact on the viewer taking time to reflect on meaning, or to notice small things are not going to do well. I do notice that high-scoring images tend to be well-composed, well-lit, and nail the challenge topic in a manner which is immediately obvious. |
Sounds like the same thing to me! I think our definitions may simply differ a little. |
|
|
|
06/14/2023 09:09:45 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by Cory:
It feels comforting to come 'round and see these conversations are still ongoing. :) |
We actually haven't had these in quite some time ... long time actually. |
|
|
|
06/14/2023 12:58:41 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Cory:
It feels comforting to come 'round and see these conversations are still ongoing. :) |
We actually haven't had these in quite some time ... long time actually. |
Shhh... Let me just imagine that it's still a weekly thing. ;-) |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 10:27:03 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Cory:
It feels comforting to come 'round and see these conversations are still ongoing. :) |
We actually haven't had these in quite some time ... long time actually. |
Shhh... Let me just imagine that it's still a weekly thing. ;-) |
Sad to see the top finishers in the latest landscape challenge got the hit by the low vote troll, not all of course, but too many. I do wish there was a forced critique. Personally, I get that I am not good at landscape photos, so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad.
Message edited by author 2023-06-16 14:27:32. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 11:21:41 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Personally, I get that I am not good at landscape photos, so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
I've been leaving a few more comments recently, not sure if I hit yours. I'll go look at your recentl landcape entries and see if I can identify why they may or may not have worked for me.
You can always post in the forums afterwards and ask for feedback, and Ken will edit Godzilla into your photo. That's always fun. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:05:34 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Sad to see the top finishers in the latest landscape challenge got the hit by the low vote troll, not all of course, but too many. I do wish there was a forced critique. Personally, I get that I am not good at landscape photos, so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
I like being part of the DPL as it forces me to shoot more, and shoot photos I wouldn't otherwise (I am definitely not a still life photographer, but I'm up for the challenge). But an unfortunate side effect of the DPL is voting everyone low so your team does better. I doubt it makes a difference actually, but it does seem to lower everyone's overall score. I try to counteract this a bit by voting a bit higher. I gave your photo Late Afternoon Glow and 8, and looks like the lowest score you got was two 4s, which I also don't understand giving a good photo like that a low score. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:17:54 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Zoomdak:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Sad to see the top finishers in the latest landscape challenge got the hit by the low vote troll, not all of course, but too many. I do wish there was a forced critique. Personally, I get that I am not good at landscape photos, so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
I like being part of the DPL as it forces me to shoot more, and shoot photos I wouldn't otherwise (I am definitely not a still life photographer, but I'm up for the challenge). But an unfortunate side effect of the DPL is voting everyone low so your team does better. I doubt it makes a difference actually, but it does seem to lower everyone's overall score. I try to counteract this a bit by voting a bit higher. I gave your photo Late Afternoon Glow and 8, and looks like the lowest score you got was two 4s, which I also don't understand giving a good photo like that a low score. |
I totally agree with you - as we will all witness soon, I am not an abstract photographer. That being said, I didn't do what I was thinking because I got lazy about it. My score is reflective of my laziness. Which is fine.
However, on my portrait landscape image the 4's don't bug me - the 1 bugs me . . . . I would love to know what was SO bad. I am missing it - I know I am not good at landscapes, but I am totally having fun trying this genre and obviously I was REALLY bad in some area to deserve a 1. I would love to know the why. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:19:25 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Personally, I get that I am not good at landscape photos, so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
I've been leaving a few more comments recently, not sure if I hit yours. I'll go look at your recentl landcape entries and see if I can identify why they may or may not have worked for me.
You can always post in the forums afterwards and ask for feedback, and Ken will edit Godzilla into your photo. That's always fun. |
The scale of the waterfall would make an excellent Godzilla image, I could see him straddling that water like a stripper pole! Did it just get weird? I fear it might have.
Message edited by author 2023-06-16 16:19:58. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:31:53 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
. . . so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
You know that if you are voting on a pc with a numbers pad on the keyboard and using the numbers pad, a 10 registers as a 1? I'm very careful about that now as I had it happen to me (I mean I was voting and gave a 1 to the image I liked best of all, completely accidentally). Maybe that's what happened.
|
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:37:36 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by nam:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
. . . so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
You know that if you are voting on a pc with a numbers pad on the keyboard and using the numbers pad, a 10 registers as a 1? I'm very careful about that now as I had it happen to me (I mean I was voting and gave a 1 to the image I liked best of all, completely accidentally). Maybe that's what happened. |
Ultimately I think it would be a great feature here if there was a warning when giving a 1 to 3 (arbitrary number); something along the lines of "looks like you feel there is room for improvement, consider leaving feedback so they can improve"; not force it per se but encourage it plus it would then eliminate the chance someone is doing it in error. Just a thought. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:48:49 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
However, on my portrait landscape image - the 1 bugs me . . . . I would love to know what was SO bad. |
Not a damn thing.
Some people are just nasty and miserable and aren't happy unless they take it out on others. Your image is just fine. Do not let this one complete jerk rent *any* space in your head.
I don't even want to hear it about someone's "personal scale" for voting. Anybody who's been here for even one hot minute knows that a 1 is a nasty vote and makes the photographer feel badly.
|
|
|
|
06/16/2023 12:59:51 PM · #65 |
Some people just don't like pictures of fluffy waterfalls. I didn't vote. I do have a couple subjects that get an automatic 1 from me, no matter the level of technical excellence. I use every number in the voting scale except 5. We all have our own ways of voting, and that's good. Your image did well. Don't give that 1 another thought. :)
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by nam:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
. . . so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
You know that if you are voting on a pc with a numbers pad on the keyboard and using the numbers pad, a 10 registers as a 1? I'm very careful about that now as I had it happen to me (I mean I was voting and gave a 1 to the image I liked best of all, completely accidentally). Maybe that's what happened. |
Ultimately I think it would be a great feature here if there was a warning when giving a 1 to 3 (arbitrary number); something along the lines of "looks like you feel there is room for improvement, consider leaving feedback so they can improve"; not force it per se but encourage it plus it would then eliminate the chance someone is doing it in error. Just a thought. |
|
|
|
|
06/16/2023 01:08:13 PM · #66 |
I have rarely given a 1 to anybody. If someone takes the time and effort to put an image they deserve at least a 3, unless it is a really really crappy out of focus image...If it does not meet challenge i still evaluate on execution and technicalities but adjust score appropriately. I never give a 1 because I don't like the subject. If that were the case every insect and reptile picture would get a 1 from me.
Originally posted by RKT:
Some people just don't like pictures of fluffy waterfalls. I didn't vote. I do have a couple subjects that get an automatic 1 from me, no matter the level of technical excellence. I use every number in the voting scale except 5. We all have our own ways of voting, and that's good. Your image did well. Don't give that 1 another thought. :)
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by nam:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
. . . so I would love to know what was deserving of a 1 vote on my entry. Trust me, I get it wasn't going to win and wasn't amazing - I just didn't think it was THAT bad. |
You know that if you are voting on a pc with a numbers pad on the keyboard and using the numbers pad, a 10 registers as a 1? I'm very careful about that now as I had it happen to me (I mean I was voting and gave a 1 to the image I liked best of all, completely accidentally). Maybe that's what happened. |
Ultimately I think it would be a great feature here if there was a warning when giving a 1 to 3 (arbitrary number); something along the lines of "looks like you feel there is room for improvement, consider leaving feedback so they can improve"; not force it per se but encourage it plus it would then eliminate the chance someone is doing it in error. Just a thought. |
|
Message edited by author 2023-06-16 17:08:44. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 01:18:59 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
However, on my portrait landscape image - the 1 bugs me . . . . I would love to know what was SO bad. |
Not a damn thing.
Some people are just nasty and miserable and aren't happy unless they take it out on others. Your image is just fine. Do not let this one complete jerk rent *any* space in your head.
I don't even want to hear it about someone's "personal scale" for voting. Anybody who's been here for even one hot minute knows that a 1 is a nasty vote and makes the photographer feel badly. |
I appreciate that and agree - I have gotten my share of 'don't like the subject 3 and 4 votes'. It is what it is. But I agree a 1 is in it's own league. I know I have never given out a 1 and I have strongly disliked the subject, execution, everything about an image. The lowest I will go is a 3 especially when there are so few voters and it really affects the overall score. Since returning to DPC I have restricted my voting scale - rarely give out a 10 and rarely give out a 3. Oh well.
I will say this to the voter: Please consider leaving feedback; we can all improve and I may not agree with your critique but I darn sure would respect the heck out of you backing up your 1. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 02:47:06 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Some people are just nasty and miserable and aren't happy unless they take it out on others. Your image is just fine. Do not let this one complete jerk rent *any* space in your head.
I don't even want to hear it about someone's "personal scale" for voting. Anybody who's been here for even one hot minute knows that a 1 is a nasty vote and makes the photographer feel badly. |
This is not a constructive way to communicate in the forums. Presumptions made about the personalities and motivations of other DPCers serve no purpose except to drive wedges. Please don't do it anymore. |
|
|
|
06/16/2023 11:07:07 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Some people are just nasty and miserable and aren't happy unless they take it out on others. Your image is just fine. Do not let this one complete jerk rent *any* space in your head.
I don't even want to hear it about someone's "personal scale" for voting. Anybody who's been here for even one hot minute knows that a 1 is a nasty vote and makes the photographer feel badly. |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This is not a constructive way to communicate in the forums. Presumptions made about the personalities and motivations of other DPCers serve no purpose except to drive wedges. Please don't do it anymore. |
Ya know, that it isn't the most pleasant statement doesn't make it any less true. By the same criteria that you decide you want to chastise me using, there should be something to prevent the kind of abuse that some people put forth in their voting.
The people who vote a 1 in situations like Erin's image are the ones driving wedges. You want to call someone out? Fine, then deal with that kind of ignorant, divisive action. Yes, there are extremely isolated cases where a 1 can be supported, but more often that's not the case.
I'm sorry if you don't want to hear this, but my perspective is certainly every bit as valid as the person that gave Erin's image a 1. The main difference is that I'll own my stance.
That someone can do so without owning it is the crux of the issue and this is a discussion that comes around on a regular basis. Participants have been unhappy about this issue for years yet it goes on.
Trying to be supportive and encouraging in the face of negative behaviors doesn't lessen the sting, and on no level is a 1 constructive in most instances.
There have been tutorials written and discussions ad infinitum suggesting voting techniques. You are specifically telling me to play nice when this issue persists?
So please don't tell me not to voice an opinion I'll stand behind unless you have a valid stance to refute it from other than you don't necessarily share or like it.
That's not going to address the elephant in the room.....Perhaps it's time to really do something about the problem.
|
|
|
|
06/17/2023 02:08:09 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Some people are just nasty and miserable and aren't happy unless they take it out on others. Your image is just fine. Do not let this one complete jerk rent *any* space in your head.
I don't even want to hear it about someone's "personal scale" for voting. Anybody who's been here for even one hot minute knows that a 1 is a nasty vote and makes the photographer feel badly. |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This is not a constructive way to communicate in the forums. Presumptions made about the personalities and motivations of other DPCers serve no purpose except to drive wedges. Please don't do it anymore. |
Ya know, that it isn't the most pleasant statement doesn't make it any less true. By the same criteria that you decide you want to chastise me using, there should be something to prevent the kind of abuse that some people put forth in their voting.
The people who vote a 1 in situations like Erin's image are the ones driving wedges. You want to call someone out? Fine, then deal with that kind of ignorant, divisive action. Yes, there are extremely isolated cases where a 1 can be supported, but more often that's not the case.
I'm sorry if you don't want to hear this, but my perspective is certainly every bit as valid as the person that gave Erin's image a 1. The main difference is that I'll own my stance.
That someone can do so without owning it is the crux of the issue and this is a discussion that comes around on a regular basis. Participants have been unhappy about this issue for years yet it goes on.
Trying to be supportive and encouraging in the face of negative behaviors doesn't lessen the sting, and on no level is a 1 constructive in most instances.
There have been tutorials written and discussions ad infinitum suggesting voting techniques. You are specifically telling me to play nice when this issue persists?
So please don't tell me not to voice an opinion I'll stand behind unless you have a valid stance to refute it from other than you don't necessarily share or like it.
That's not going to address the elephant in the room.....Perhaps it's time to really do something about the problem. |
Well said  NikonJeb, exactly my point. People can anonymously (down)vote other participants with impunity. And the arguments in this forum are with name and all, so we can address each other. So why continue the first but try to prevent the second? |
|
|
|
06/17/2023 02:47:00 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
I appreciate that and agree - I have gotten my share of 'don't like the subject 3 and 4 votes'. It is what it is. But I agree a 1 is in it's own league. I know I have never given out a 1 and I have strongly disliked the subject, execution, everything about an image. The lowest I will go is a 3 especially when there are so few voters and it really affects the overall score. Since returning to DPC I have restricted my voting scale - rarely give out a 10 and rarely give out a 3. Oh well.
I will say this to the voter: Please consider leaving feedback; we can all improve and I may not agree with your critique but I darn sure would respect the heck out of you backing up your 1. |
I always wonder why some participants are so upset about the 1-votes. Why would you care?
To me, it's simply a scale - 10 is better than 9, 9 is better than 8, 2 is better than 1. And the other way round - 1 is worse than a 2, and so on.
So in DPC one can assign 10 levels. And the average is your final score.
You can of course limit yourself to 7 levels, but why? Doesn't make a difference, really. Some shots get your lowest vote, be that a 3 or a 1, and some get your highest, be that a 9 or a 10.
I'd suggest to not take all this too serious or too personal.
|
|
|
|
06/17/2023 02:55:23 AM · #72 |
I loved the topics, thanks team!
Great to have the DPL back, not so great to see that some returning members are bringing this vibe back with them. The last few months, for their lack of participation, have been quite nice really.
Onto the next! |
|
|
|
06/17/2023 03:16:49 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by Rankles:
I loved the topics, thanks team!
Great to have the DPL back, not so great to see that some returning members are bringing this vibe back with them. The last few months, for their lack of participation, have been quite nice really.
Onto the next! |
Well put! For a team competition and to encourage participation the topics have been good.
Goofy faces? No thanks. The more challenges like this the less likely I̢۪m hanging around after DPL is done. Not interesting to shoot and even less to vote.
Message edited by author 2023-06-17 07:18:18. |
|
|
|
06/17/2023 06:09:15 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Who the Hell does anyone think they are that they are entitled to an explanation as to why someone didn't like their image??? The audacity!
You offered it up for people to tell you what they think then you want to bust their chops because you fell short in their opinion? |
I agree with this NikonJeb
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
The people who vote a 1 in situations like Erin's image are the ones driving wedges. You want to call someone out? Fine, then deal with that kind of ignorant, divisive action. Yes, there are extremely isolated cases where a 1 can be supported, but more often that's not the case. |
I strongly disagree with this NikonJeb. This is an argument for conformity of opinion. Bring back the old Jeb. |
|
|
|
06/17/2023 07:51:02 AM · #75 |
Folks, there are ways to express our "honest" thoughts without resorting to vitriol, because that is precisely what prompted the great exodus about 8 years ago. The forums were barely moderated, and people left in droves because of the lack of civility.
So now it is moderated, and we're asking, NICELY, to find more constructive ways of being honest. We might all begin by not assuming we know someone else's motives for doing anything, or that we are owed an explanation for their actions.
Finally, this site operates under the auspices of SC, not vigilantes :) if there is something truly egregious, notify SC. There are some things, however, we just cannot do anything about, such as force people to comment, or how to use the voting scale, other than to discourage "friend voting", and suspend if they continue to do so. |
|
