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06/09/2023 10:45:55 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by mariuca:
To me any score bigger than 6 is a good score, if this is your concern.
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I consider anything that gets above a 6 to be in more of a struggle for popular appeal than creating a good image. I am usually ok with anything above a 5.7. Below that, I feel my image was lacking or was good but had strong appeal for a narrow crowd. |
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06/09/2023 10:47:31 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by Kroburg:
Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:
Your usual whining snark when you disagree with anything your ego is tied up in. The guy has a very good point. Just accept that your precious baby has its many flaws. This one of them. One could argue the entire league thing does not fit the spirit of DPC. |
Exactly. I agree with  Phocal, the topics are so boring (at least to some of us). I thought it would be nice to be back at DPC and do the DPL, but after week 1 I already regretted to be part of it. Will help my team and end the DPL and then say BYE.
This intention got even stronger this morning when I noticed that my image in Holy Places (a steady 6.60 - 6.70 in the last 2 days) received 3 votes in the last half hour: a 3, a 4 and a 5. Bringing it down from 6.64 to 6.44. We all know the trolls are out in the last hours of voting, but this was so imminent: people voting low in order to be able to end higher in the ranks themselves. IMHO this is the biggest flaw. Make voting les anonymous for a change, see if they then have the guts to still downvote other people. |
It is very frustrating to have the last few hour drop - happens virtually every single time (a .2 to .3 drop); but it happens to most of the top finishers AND I now view it as a badge of honor to have my images voted low. It is definitely frustrating and everyone feels very similarly. For me, I had to stop factoring in my finish and just enjoy the process. I have tried photographing subjects I donât normally photograph and stretching myself to use my camera in ways I never did. For instance, the upcoming HDR challenge. I havenât ever done that and if it werenât for DPL and my commitment to my team I wouldnât take the time away from my daily pursuits to learn it. So, for that, I am excited. |
New computer - Iâm having to relearn PsCC - Iâm glad/happy for league - renewal of friendships - itâs all good - I too am excited Thumbs Up |
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06/09/2023 10:49:45 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Kroburg:
It hasnât to do with the DPL. It happened in many challenges before. But itâs fine, apparently some people have their reasons to do so. Very sad. |
Do do realize that you are INFERRING motivations and attributing behaviors to people you can't identify and for which you have no actual evidence or proof. This has the effect of impugning the integrity of every voter ...
Personally, I'm disappointed when people express criticism in overtly hostile language, without either clearly expressing the underlying reason for their disappointment, or offering constructive suggestions (e.g. "better" challenge topics). |
Agreed - footnote - âIâ offered a Challenge suggestion - wink, wink! |
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06/09/2023 11:25:40 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
Agreed - footnote - âIâ offered a Challenge suggestion - wink, wink! |
Thank you ... :-)
Actually there are five threads in the challenge Suggestions category on the front page right no
However, I am not involved in scheduling, in fact, in the site's early days I was convinced Langdon could somehow scan my disk for the best thing I'd shot that week and schedule it for the NEXT week ... ;-( |
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06/09/2023 11:32:36 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
... It [late low votes] happened in many challenges before. But itâs fine, apparently some people have their reasons to do so. Very sad. |
Apparently this is a wonderful place with room for all: and we are glad of it.
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06/09/2023 11:46:13 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
Originally posted by Kroburg:
Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:
Your usual whining snark when you disagree with anything your ego is tied up in. The guy has a very good point. Just accept that your precious baby has its many flaws. This one of them. One could argue the entire league thing does not fit the spirit of DPC. |
Exactly. I agree with Phocal, the topics are so boring (at least to some of us). I thought it would be nice to be back at DPC and do the DPL, but after week 1 I already regretted to be part of it. Will help my team and end the DPL and then say BYE.
This intention got even stronger this morning when I noticed that my image in Holy Places (a steady 6.60 - 6.70 in the last 2 days) received 3 votes in the last half hour: a 3, a 4 and a 5. Bringing it down from 6.64 to 6.44. We all know the trolls are out in the last hours of voting, but this was so imminent: people voting low in order to be able to end higher in the ranks themselves. IMHO this is the biggest flaw. Make voting les anonymous for a change, see if they then have the guts to still downvote other people. |
Curious - what your solution would be - what exactly do you see as a way to fix this logistically. |
Very simple. Make voting open, I.e. show the name of the voter. When you look at the data after voting, they can tell what was the average vote of participants and non-participants. So if you can tell that, why not going a step further and give the vote and name of each individual voter. |
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06/09/2023 11:52:06 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
... see if they then have the guts to still downvote other people. |
Given the amount of hostility being expressed toward anonymous voters I hate to imagine the degree of vitriol people would be exposed to if forced to disclose and justify their votes. No thanks. |
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06/09/2023 12:23:24 PM · #33 |
I didn't vote in this challenge, but I would not have voted this particular photo over 5. It sparked nothing in me.
The complainant seems to think that there is some absolute measure of photographic goodness (God forgive me that expression!) and that all people should be applying it.
What would be the point if there were, and if everyone adhered to that measure and application? |
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06/09/2023 02:29:53 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Kroburg:
... see if they then have the guts to still downvote other people. |
Given the amount of hostility being expressed toward anonymous voters I hate to imagine the degree of vitriol people would be exposed to if forced to disclose and justify their votes. No thanks. |
That would never work - itâs already hostel enough!!! |
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06/09/2023 02:43:37 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
Originally posted by Kroburg:
Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:
Your usual whining snark when you disagree with anything your ego is tied up in. The guy has a very good point. Just accept that your precious baby has its many flaws. This one of them. One could argue the entire league thing does not fit the spirit of DPC. |
Exactly. I agree with Phocal, the topics are so boring (at least to some of us). I thought it would be nice to be back at DPC and do the DPL, but after week 1 I already regretted to be part of it. Will help my team and end the DPL and then say BYE.
This intention got even stronger this morning when I noticed that my image in Holy Places (a steady 6.60 - 6.70 in the last 2 days) received 3 votes in the last half hour: a 3, a 4 and a 5. Bringing it down from 6.64 to 6.44. We all know the trolls are out in the last hours of voting, but this was so imminent: people voting low in order to be able to end higher in the ranks themselves. IMHO this is the biggest flaw. Make voting les anonymous for a change, see if they then have the guts to still downvote other people. |
Curious - what your solution would be - what exactly do you see as a way to fix this logistically. |
Very simple. Make voting open, I.e. show the name of the voter. When you look at the data after voting, they can tell what was the average vote of participants and non-participants. So if you can tell that, why not going a step further and give the vote and name of each individual voter. |
Kees - you know - I love ya - and I think your work is amazing - but, this is not a realistic option - it would be very, very volatile and hostile - NO ONE would vote at all - thatâs NOT how this site works - (THANK GOD)
Though I agree - that âsomethingâ needs to be done - sadly, no matter what they did - it wouldnât keep you here- bc you (and others) would confront anyone giving you a 1, 2, or 3 vote - thus, destroying what we have here -
Iâll preface this with âI donât vote below 5â - (unless itâs very offensive or HORRIBLE) - that being said - no matter how âgoodâ we think our work is - âsomeoneâ will disagree with us - âwe/Iâ am not âgoldenâ - itâs âartâ and subject to the all walks of life views likes/dislikes.
Live with the 1/2/3âs - bc usually there are 7/8/9 or 10âs to balance out âyour viewâ. Itâs not a size 10 fits all - its size 10 fits a few.
JMO - love ya!!! |
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06/09/2023 02:44:25 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by tnun:
I didn't vote in this challenge, but I would not have voted this particular photo over 5. It sparked nothing in me.
The complainant seems to think that there is some absolute measure of photographic goodness (God forgive me that expression!) and that all people should be applying it.
What would be the point if there were, and if everyone adhered to that measure and application? |
Truth |
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06/09/2023 03:59:03 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
- it would be very, very volatile and hostile - NO ONE would vote at all - thatâs NOT how this site works - (THANK GOD)
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Agreed. It would be similar to why some people prefer to leave anonymous comments during voting or not comment at all because they have received angry feedback over an honestly given opinion. It hurts those people who do wish to receive constructive criticism, but I understand why some are gun shy over commenting.
Message edited by author 2023-06-09 19:59:52. |
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06/09/2023 04:11:43 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
- it would be very, very volatile and hostile - NO ONE would vote at all - thatâs NOT how this site works - (THANK GOD)
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Agreed. It would be similar to why some people prefer to leave anonymous comments during voting or not comment at all because they have received angry feedback over an honestly given opinion. It hurts those people who do wish to receive constructive criticism, but I understand why some are gun shy over commenting. |
I've long thought we should have an option analogous to this displayed below the title, either as an overall preference setting or an option on the submission page.
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06/09/2023 04:16:42 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
Though I agree - that âsomethingâ needs to be done - sadly, no matter what they did - it wouldnât keep you here- bc you (and others) would confront anyone giving you a 1, 2, or 3 vote - thus, destroying what we have here |
That is why I stopped commenting on photos. Thanks.
Message edited by glad2badad - Personal ... no need to call out something negative from the past.. |
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06/09/2023 04:50:05 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
- it would be very, very volatile and hostile - NO ONE would vote at all - thatâs NOT how this site works - (THANK GOD)
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Agreed. It would be similar to why some people prefer to leave anonymous comments during voting or not comment at all because they have received angry feedback over an honestly given opinion. It hurts those people who do wish to receive constructive criticism, but I understand why some are gun shy over commenting. |
I've long thought we should have an option analogous to this displayed below the title, either as an overall preference setting or an option on the submission page.
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Was missing an option
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06/09/2023 07:30:17 PM · #41 |
My thought - then I'll go back to editing bad photos...
What about a system pop-up for a comment if someone votes a 1,2, or 3 and you can't continue until you comment (or raise the vote?} People would be happier if those voting lower would explain why they voted it low as we are all here to build our skills and learn.
"I don't like the color scheme." Valid
"Your focus is off and the composition is terrible." Valid
"It sucks!" Pointless and serves no purpose.
I'm sure we could never get anything like this to work, so we drudge along with the same troll issues that has plagued the site for over a decade.
Off to edit... |
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06/09/2023 07:49:03 PM · #42 |
I've held off on commenting on yet another thread on voting because, well what's the point. However....
Everyone votes in a different manner.
Some only vote 1-3, where 1 is good, 2 is better, 3 is best.
Some only vote 5-9, because there's no such thing as "perfect"
Some give anything they don't like a 1
Some feel bad and give everything a 6
Some hate the color green and will vote 1 for anything with green in it.
Some hate street photography, or nudes, or animals, or blurs, or abstracts, or, or, or, or and give anything in those categories a 1.
Some give low votes to images that are too literal to the challenge.
Some give low votes to images that are too out-of-the-box to the challenge.
And just about EVERYONE believes their image should have gotten a higher score.
The only thing that matters to SC are voting patterns which seem to indicate favoritism, "friend voting", or unfair advantage.
The latter doesn't apply to DPL because teams cannot vote on each other's images.
The others we catch and warn, and temporarily suspend, with warnings.
Half this membership wants more votes.
The other half demands people explain their votes.
In sum, there will be no changes, additions, modifications, pop-up windows, etc. to the current voting system for the foreseeable future. |
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06/09/2023 08:06:47 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
What about a system pop-up for a comment if someone votes a 1,2, or 3 and you can't continue until you comment (or raise the vote?} People would be happier if those voting lower would explain why they voted it low as we are all here to build our skills and learn. |
It's been suggested before. It was felt that this would only have the effect of compressing the voting scale and 4 would become the new 1. |
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06/09/2023 08:09:10 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by bergiekat:
What about a system pop-up for a comment if someone votes a 1,2, or 3 and you can't continue until you comment (or raise the vote?} People would be happier if those voting lower would explain why they voted it low as we are all here to build our skills and learn. |
It's been suggested before. It was felt that this would only have the effect of compressing the voting scale and 4 would become the new 1. |
Seems like I kind of remember that. Don't mind me. :D |
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06/09/2023 08:10:28 PM · #45 |
WTF, peeps, low votes are not a problem!
Are we really so childish and insecure that we need the higher score to validate our talent? If we are so sure that we have been low-voted for evil reasons, why do we care?
The real point of DPC is to share our work and get some kind of response. Any response.
ETA: the point of the challenges, I mean. Other benefits of course are sharing and learning.
Message edited by author 2023-06-10 00:15:15. |
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06/09/2023 08:52:18 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Phocal:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
Though I agree - that âsomethingâ needs to be done - sadly, no matter what they did - it wouldnât keep you here- bc you (and others) would confront anyone giving you a 1, 2, or 3 vote - thus, destroying what we have here |
That is why I stopped commenting on photos. Thanks. |
Absolutely no calling out - I used to comment on every entry - EVERY entry - I caught flack - but overall I think it was appreciated. You have to develop thick skin - take it as it comes - not get âhurtâ bc they gave you a 1/2/3 - but bc they gave you an honest critique - priceless |
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06/10/2023 06:02:12 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
The other half demands people explain their votes. |
This is it in a nutshell...
Who the Hell does anyone think they are that they are entitled to an explanation as to why someone didn't like their image??? The audacity!
You offered it up for people to tell you what they think then you want to bust their chops because you fell short in their opinion?
Sometimes it's as basic as this:
Originally posted by tnun:
I didn't vote in this challenge, but I would not have voted this particular photo over 5. It sparked nothing in me. |
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
If the image does nothing for the viewer/voter, you're going to get a low or "Meh!" vote.
It's not good or bad, right or wrong, it's just their take on it from their viewing.
For me, the voting is a scale.....one utilizes the average to determine generic interest.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten Meh 5.xxxx images with three comments from viewers I respect and admire.
THAT is what means more to me than a score. Sure, we all love getting good scores, but I also have two blue ribbons that make little or no sense to me.
It's all just an index for you to glean information. What you do with that and how you react is entirely on you.
Truly, it's the "Meh!" renderings that will sharpen you up if you're paying attention.
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06/10/2023 09:56:50 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by pmichaud:
Originally posted by Barroness:
I am pushing my creativity for these challenges. I'm working hard as I can for my team and enjoying the challenges. They are hard to be extra creative and it is a good thing for me. I didn't see the low scores coming but its okay. I am grateful for the league. |
I keep looking for the "like" button :) |
You can borrow this. :-)  |
Thank you!
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06/10/2023 11:22:34 AM · #49 |
Could say it better. Good reading for all:
Originally posted by tnun:
WTF, peeps, low votes are not a problem!
Are we really so childish and insecure that we need the higher score to validate our talent? If we are so sure that we have been low-voted for evil reasons, why do we care?
The real point of DPC is to share our work and get some kind of response. Any response.
ETA: the point of the challenges, I mean. Other benefits of course are sharing and learning. |
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06/13/2023 11:25:56 PM · #50 |
I've been away for dog's years but if I may toss in my 2 cents from way back when my finger used to get tired of hitting the update button to see how my image was being voted on.
You don't really know unless you watch every vote come in at the moment it occurs.
People vote, then they look at their groups and they adjust. Someone gave you a 6, but someone had you at 9, then they bought you down to an 8, it looks like they gave you a 5.
I used to vote early and give 1, 5,or 10: then go back and sort with greater care. No one ended up with a 1, and almost no one ended with a 10.
And it really doesn't matter how you score, IMHO some front page finisers are weak images, and I love some that finished in the bottom 10%. |
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