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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> 3 Core Principles of DPC
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 73, (reverse)
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 07/23/2022 09:15:20 PM · #26
I love you all.

But photography it must be, if it wants to be here. I don't even like the lack of minimal challenges and so many challenges that allow so much. Do it with a camera, not a computer would be my general position I think. And again, with love and respect for all the amazing artwork that doesn't fall in that rather narrow description.
 07/23/2022 09:21:41 PM · #27
Originally posted by Cory:
I love you all.

But photography it must be, if it wants to be here. I don't even like the lack of minimal challenges and so many challenges that allow so much. Do it with a camera, not a computer would be my general position I think. And again, with love and respect for all the amazing artwork that doesn't fall in that rather narrow description.


+100
 07/24/2022 04:54:26 AM · #28
I am all for artistic expression of any kind and I really appreciate the outlet on DPC to do that with photography. This site is a Photography site with specific rules created around images you take with a digital camera. Challenge images must be verified by data from said photographs and if that can’t be done, then it doesn’t fit into what this is all about.
 07/24/2022 08:40:49 AM · #29
Originally posted by Tiberius:
I like capturing moments rather than creating them.


I'm with Tibi. But that's my kind of photography. The rest of you can meander wherever you please on the spectrum.
 07/24/2022 04:23:57 PM · #30
I am very comfortable limiting challenge entries to images that have a direct connection to a digital photograph made by the image maker. However, I don't buy for a minute the argument that photographs need to show "reality." Reality is three dimensional, photos are two dimensional. Photos exclude the parts of reality that are outside the frame. Monochrome photos even exclude color. We are immersed in photographic conventions, but we know deep down inside the difference between a photo and reality. I think I know what people mean, but generally, I think it is perfectly fine to let go of the idea that representational art as the only art allowed here. Besides, personally expressive photographic art is very different from acting like a photocopy machine.

So:
* Flip and bend: fine with me for DPC.
* Wacky panoramas: even more fun, and fully appropriate for DPC.
* Camera motion blur: can be exceptionally lovely when done with artistic skill, and obviously accepted at DPC.
* Using the digital camera of a flatbed scanner to capture a collage of flowers and other items: feels like a form of digital photography to me; but I am ok with excluding until scanners start adding EXIF data to their digital output when scanning to a file.
On the other hand:
* Digital painting with tablet/mouse used to select and place colors and lines but with no photograph involved: I don't think these fit DPC.

Here is a harder case. Dynamic Auto Painter can take my digital photo as input, then produce separate digital output that lays down digital paints/lines/layers (possible to modify by using my mouse to paint along with the program while it works) to end up with a digital painting that technically is not a photo and does not have EXIF data but that looks like my photo with a painterly filter (and the results can look really interesting and can be done in variations of styles of many well-known painters). DPC would not (and probably should not) accept the "painted" output without EXIF. But DPC probably would (and probably should) accept the result if I keep my original image in Photoshop and then add the painted image output as a layer above the photo, and then save as a tiff and convert to jpg while retaining the original EXIF data. (Of course, I would run a trial image past the Site Council before doing that). I lean toward liberal acceptance of evolving techniques while maintaining a connection to photography.
07/24/2022 05:44:48 PM · #31
Originally posted by Cory:
Do it with a camera, not a computer would be my general position I think.


So... no processing, which is almost exclusively done on a computer...?
 07/24/2022 05:52:11 PM · #32
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by Cory:
Do it with a camera, not a computer would be my general position I think.

So... no processing, which is almost exclusively done on a computer...?

Obviously, Cory needs to respond, but I read his comment as meaning the photo / image needs to be created by using a camera, not created wholly by using a computer only.
 07/24/2022 05:54:34 PM · #33
^^^

Great post.
 07/24/2022 07:11:10 PM · #34
The other problem I foresee is: how do you know the person created it vs AI?

I thought Dall e sounded fascinating
 07/24/2022 09:01:55 PM · #35
Originally posted by vawendy:
The other problem I foresee is: how do you know the person created it vs AI?

I thought Dall e sounded fascinating


I brought word-generated images up elsewhere. Again, the only way for us to know for our purposes is with EXIF.
 07/25/2022 03:00:12 AM · #36
Originally posted by grahamgator:
I am all for artistic expression of any kind and I really appreciate the outlet on DPC to do that with photography. This site is a Photography site with specific rules created around images you take with a digital camera. Challenge images must be verified by data from said photographs and if that can’t be done, then it doesn’t fit into what this is all about.

Yes, definitely this!
 07/25/2022 05:40:30 AM · #37
I'm not interested in policing genres of art. That being said, I do think it's useful to have a clear set of rules just so we know what we're voting on. I like that DPC tries to be rigid about requirements but open about voting, as long as you distribute your votes reasonably on the scale.

Also, as others have said/implied, the EXIF rule helps determine that images are original, at least in some sense. What I find amusing is that some photography purists seem to be against originality when they go on about capturing what's really there blah blah. Photography is a humble art, lol.

I'm too lazy to run a photography site, but if I did there would only be two rules:

1. read On Photography by Susan Sontag
2. read or watch Ways of Seeing by John Berger
07/25/2022 08:23:37 AM · #38
Originally posted by posthumous:
I'm not interested in policing genres of art. That being said, I do think it's useful to have a clear set of rules just so we know what we're voting on. I like that DPC tries to be rigid about requirements but open about voting, as long as you distribute your votes reasonably on the scale.

Also, as others have said/implied, the EXIF rule helps determine that images are original, at least in some sense. What I find amusing is that some photography purists seem to be against originality when they go on about capturing what's really there blah blah. Photography is a humble art, lol.

I'm too lazy to run a photography site, but if I did there would only be two rules:

1. read On Photography by Susan Sontag
2. read or watch Ways of Seeing by John Berger


I believe that Don is agreeing with most of the comments on this thread (Exif etc). Forum was not about policing art.
As to the recommended reading, I would pass on both even if this sentence will create an explosion of indignation. For even if Picasso is not one of my favorite artists, what he said about art in the most succinct way seems to beat all other verbose. For general education the books are worth reading (although the Marxist humanism of John Berger was forcefully fed with the biggest spoon in Eastern Europe) but I do not find them paramount

Have to finish with:

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
Pablo Picasso
Also:
Ways of Seeing 4 episodes

Message edited by author 2022-07-25 13:15:19.
 07/25/2022 09:24:22 AM · #39
Originally posted by mariuca:

As to the recommended reading, I would pass on both even if this sentence will create an explosion of indignation. For even if Picasso is not one of my favorite artists, what he said about art in the most succinct way seems to beat all other verbose. For general education the books are worth reading (although the Marxist humanism of John Berger was forcefully fed with the biggest spoon in Eastern Europe) but I do not find them paramount

Have to finish with:

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
Pablo Picasso
Also:
Ways of Seeing 4 episodes


I didn't say you had to like them. You just have to read/watch them! One is relatively short and the other is a TV show or a short book with lots of pictures.

Also, the Picasso analogy is not apt because neither Sontag nor Berger are known for their photographs.
 07/25/2022 06:19:15 PM · #40
Originally posted by mariuca:
“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
Pablo Picasso


Though it doesn't surprise me in the least to see this as a famous quote, I've always sort of lived by this credo.

I don't remember whether I heard it, read it somewhere, or simply arrived at it myself in complete exasperation after getting in trouble for breaking some rule nobody bothered to share with me.

That seemed to happen to me not so infrequently during my deformative years in the strictures of the formalized educational system.

One needs to know the rules in order to break them with impunity and panache...
 07/26/2022 09:40:59 AM · #41
I think any entry should start as a photo and should retain at least some of the original photo. By that, I mean that one should not take a photo then change every aspect of it to the extent it could have been created without the photo.

Edit: I guess this would exclude flip and bend as you can't tell what the original photo was. Something to think about.

Message edited by author 2022-07-26 13:44:06.
 07/26/2022 07:51:13 PM · #42
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
My opinion ... if you can't prove you took a photo to make whatever creation you present as a challenge entry, then it's not something we should see in a challenge.


For me, THIS is the dealbreaker.


Same for me. A photograph + EXIF with time limits are basic and have to be the starting point.
 07/26/2022 08:40:31 PM · #43
Originally posted by crik:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
My opinion ... if you can't prove you took a photo to make whatever creation you present as a challenge entry, then it's not something we should see in a challenge.


For me, THIS is the dealbreaker.


Same for me. A photograph + EXIF with time limits are basic and have to be the starting point.


I think we have come to a consensus!
 07/27/2022 05:52:20 AM · #44
Originally posted by Neat:
I think we have come to a consensus!

"Coming to a consensus" involves debate and (usually) compromise, and that has not occurred here; the thread is specifically asking for opinions, not debate.

I'd agree that there appears to be agreement among the responders to this thread that 3D imaging without verifiable source images does not fit the DPC model.

I'm probably picking nits here but I just felt it was necessary to make the distinction...



Message edited by glad2badad - fixed quote attribute to correct person.
 07/27/2022 06:16:38 AM · #45
The computer-based images are interesting. I don’t have any objection to a new rule-set for these images as long as the participants can create their work in a specific time constraint.
 07/27/2022 06:25:02 AM · #46
Originally posted by crik:
The computer-based images are interesting. I don’t have any objection to a new rule-set for these images as long as the participants can create their work in a specific time constraint.


But is there a way to prove when they were created?
 07/27/2022 09:13:49 AM · #47
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Originally posted by crik:
The computer-based images are interesting. I don’t have any objection to a new rule-set for these images as long as the participants can create their work in a specific time constraint.


But is there a way to prove when they were created?


It doesn’t seem like it. Unless it could be done in some construct of the challenge rules.
 07/27/2022 12:38:30 PM · #48
And it's not just about WHEN the model was created, but WHO created it. Not that we are doubting anyone in specific at this point, but looking forward we can't see how to prove that.
 07/27/2022 06:43:14 PM · #49
I am interested in photography, rather than 'digital art'.
 07/27/2022 07:20:53 PM · #50
Originally posted by MeMex2:
I am interested in photography, rather than 'digital art'.

DPC is about 'digital' photography and some of the entries are 'art' ;)
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