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Showing posts 26 - 33 of 33, (reverse)
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 07/09/2014 02:09:24 PM · #26
Originally posted by kiwinick:
In sillohettes, there were 108 entries and a vote of 71 which means about 1//3 did not participate that's a lot of voters.

should there be a rule that if you participate then you are required to vote ? or is that too heavy.


This illustrates again the importance of a vote - even moreso now that a vote or two could and can effect line up more than it did back in the past. I don't think people would like being forced to participate with what you suggest.

What I would like to see is that someone new to entering challenges can enter a challenge but they cannot vote on the first 3 challenges they enter. I know that will open a can of worms and have the counter point of "that is not very welcoming". But quite a few times, in the years that I have been here, I have seen quite a few (not all) who enter and then cannot vote in a fair and balanced manner because the temptation to vote others down is too great or they vote in anger because their entry is not doing so well. With so few votes, those few who cannot vote in a fair manner, " vote in a manner that suggests an intent to disrupt the voting system" by altering the line up in their favor to get better placement in my honest opinion. Problem is, it doesn't get them the higher spots they covet. And good luck proving without a shadow of doubt that is what those few are actually doing.

Then again with so few votes coming in, limiting those who are new to the voting & entering, has the drawback of also working against having a larger voting pool.

So damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
 07/10/2014 03:16:59 AM · #27
Originally posted by snaffles:
ETA: Nick, sadly I don't think making voting a requirement in a challenge in which you're entered will do any good. Look at the stats, voters who are voting against their own image in a challenge, always vote lower than voters who have no entry in a challenge. Sad state of affairs but true.


I believe this has little to do with down-voting the competition but is more related to comparative voting to the score your entry has. It is hard to give an image you think is worse than yours a score that is higher. Those without a horse in the race find it easier to be more generous with their votes.

Tim

Message edited by author 2014-07-10 07:18:03.
 07/10/2014 04:02:43 AM · #28
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by snaffles:
ETA: Nick, sadly I don't think making voting a requirement in a challenge in which you're entered will do any good. Look at the stats, voters who are voting against their own image in a challenge, always vote lower than voters who have no entry in a challenge. Sad state of affairs but true.


I believe this has little to do with down-voting the competition but is more related to comparative voting to the score your entry has. It is hard to give an image you think is worse than yours a score that is higher. Those without a horse in the race find it easier to be more generous with their votes.

Tim


Can't say that I agree with that premise. If anything, I have found that, in those few challenges that I have participated in, my overall average was a bit higher than normal.

I would love to see the stats mentioned by atupdate as I personally believe that many statements of this ilk would best be described as unsubstantiated generalization.

Ray
 07/10/2014 04:13:51 AM · #29
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by snaffles:
ETA: Nick, sadly I don't think making voting a requirement in a challenge in which you're entered will do any good. Look at the stats, voters who are voting against their own image in a challenge, always vote lower than voters who have no entry in a challenge. Sad state of affairs but true.


I believe this has little to do with down-voting the competition but is more related to comparative voting to the score your entry has. It is hard to give an image you think is worse than yours a score that is higher. Those without a horse in the race find it easier to be more generous with their votes.

Tim


Can't say that I agree with that premise. If anything, I have found that, in those few challenges that I have participated in, my overall average was a bit higher than normal.

I would love to see the stats mentioned by atupdate as I personally believe that many statements of this ilk would best be described as unsubstantiated generalization.

Ray


Take a look at the front page. All but one the images has a non-participant voter score higher than the participant.
 07/10/2014 05:24:31 AM · #30
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by atupdate:

I believe this has little to do with down-voting the competition but is more related to comparative voting to the score your entry has. It is hard to give an image you think is worse than yours a score that is higher. Those without a horse in the race find it easier to be more generous with their votes.

Tim


Can't say that I agree with that premise. If anything, I have found that, in those few challenges that I have participated in, my overall average was a bit higher than normal.

I would love to see the stats mentioned by atupdate as I personally believe that many statements of this ilk would best be described as unsubstantiated generalization.

Ray


I don't recall saying anything about stats. If you look at my statement, it clearly states "I believe". This puts it squarely in the personal opinion genre and most probably in the unsubstantiated generalization genre as well. However, it is based on how I feel when voting in a challenge I enter and is probably more valid of an opinion as those that think people vote down entries to boost their placement.

I also think (hint: my opinion) that "this image isn't better than mine" occurs even more during the TPL, as the scores mean more overall. I hate entering during "Team" challenges.

Tim

Message edited by author 2014-07-10 09:25:14.
 07/10/2014 12:00:32 PM · #31
Instead of trying to create more rules or less rules for people already here...why don't we try to reach out and get more ppl signed up who really want to enhance their photography skills? This seems to me the best idea...yet it will take a bit more time.

I'm assuming about 99% of the ppl here have facebooks? Why don't you share this website on it? Let ppl know how it has helped you in your skills?

How about printing some flyers and hanging them around your town? "Want to improve your photography? Enhance your skills? We will push you out of your comfort zones with weekly challenges. Submit your photos and also critique others. See how fast you will grow!"

How about creating extra incentives? All new people will get 25% off if you decide to sign up as a paying member in the next 7 days?

This will also give the people here who like to bitch and moan another thing to gripe about how they don't get a discount and all these newbies do! Hopefully get them off the bitching of how low our vote scores are and give them something new to bitch about. Win/Win!

07/10/2014 04:25:38 PM · #32
Originally posted by Frakster:
Instead of trying to create more rules or less rules for people already here...why don't we try to reach out and get more ppl signed up who really want to enhance their photography skills? This seems to me the best idea...yet it will take a bit more time.

I'm assuming about 99% of the ppl here have facebooks? Why don't you share this website on it? Let ppl know how it has helped you in your skills?

How about printing some flyers and hanging them around your town? "Want to improve your photography? Enhance your skills? We will push you out of your comfort zones with weekly challenges. Submit your photos and also critique others. See how fast you will grow!"

How about creating extra incentives? All new people will get 25% off if you decide to sign up as a paying member in the next 7 days?

This will also give the people here who like to bitch and moan another thing to gripe about how they don't get a discount and all these newbies do! Hopefully get them off the bitching of how low our vote scores are and give them something new to bitch about. Win/Win!


Frank, these are all great ideas - and some have been discussed many a time before as the number of paying members has dwindled. I have mentioned this site several times over the years to friends and people newly met. What has changed is the atmosphere. If one is resigned or has very little enthusiasm that nothing will change, how is one going to 'sell' the idea to others? The contributing factor that is affecting the low vote count and participation is that you have an owner who is not giving time and attention to the site. And it needs it, but the past year has shown it is likely not going to get what it needs. Many people know and I guess have just accepted it with a shrug of the shoulders or have left the site. I know, I know Langdon has other pursuits and has too much on his plate. Understood. What is undeniable is the site is not the thriving, vastly supportive, and enjoyable site it once was several years ago. Oh, don't get me wrong ,there are still pockets of that here, but in my opinion, they are getting fewer and fewer. When you compare it to what it used to be with over 1,000 paying members and vibrant 'talkative' community..well. Look at how many responses a thread typically gets and then look at the number of times that thread has been looked at - now go back a few years and do a comparison. It is like comparing an apple to a kumquat.

Give discounts or advertise? - well that would be great but the discount is dependent on what the owner wishes to give or do. Advertising on a greater scale is also largely dependent on the owner (see what I said above about time and attention)

Bottom line, the total number of votes *used* to better reflect all walks of life. The erratic voter ( don't think they can affect the line up? - go look, a vote of 1,2, or even 3 can mean the difference in getting into the top 3 or placing in the top 20 now that the numbers and voting margins are so low). There are the *few* voters voting with their own agenda. By agenda let me explain what I mean - A vote is best measured by half like and half judging on technical merit. After all this *IS* primarily a photography site where the main thrust is to improve and push ones self to do their best and explore new possibilities. Liking a photo is one half of the equation. The other half should take into account the lighting, angle, composition, detail, mood - the technicals. Those who vote entirely on like/dislike without balancing it with judgement of technicals is not, in my opinion, giving a fair and complete vote.

Yes, those type of voters have been here all along, but they ALL got folded into the mix and you had a better reflection of a majority standing. In the past an entry was much more likely to garner 130 to possibly 200 votes. Now, good luck in getting up to 80 or hitting 100 (it has happened in some challenges so that is great). Now a hit is just painful and detrimental to the site. I can't tell you how many 'Get out the Vote/Get out the Comment' threads created by other members and myself there have been in the past - quite a few. But those too, I notice are dwindling - quiet resignation or apathy...both are palpable IMHO. Sigh, I am just tired and bloody from hitting my head on the wall.

07/10/2014 04:48:07 PM · #33
Originally posted by CNovack:
What is undeniable is the site is not the thriving, vastly supportive, and enjoyable site it once was several years ago.


Which, if we can get more people who have a desire to grow and thrive we will start to turn the community. What would happen if we share this website on fb and/or put flyers out and because of that we get maybe 50 new users in a month who really want to grow in their skills?...I believe we would have more votes and more submissions with each challenge...along with more comments.

I can understand the frustration. I have had my account here since 2010 BUT I only started getting serious about it now, having only submitted a handful back the first year. Let's bring them back. Bring them back by getting more people on here who care. With that we will have more people involved in the community, forums, voting, submissions, and then those people will either light a fire under the butts of the managers here or replace those who don't want to do it anymore.
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