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05/02/2013 10:15:23 AM · #401 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Even then, if I fully believe the road is washed out ahead, shouldn't I tell someone else about it? |
If you are basing the information you are giving out on a two thousand year old map, you might be more prone to error than you think.:) |
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05/02/2013 10:32:45 AM · #402 |
I meant it doesn't matter from the reciprocity sense. I am acting out of good intentions with the information presented to me. I would expect the exact same behavior of someone else. Hence reciprocity is maintained and the answer to Jeb's original question remains "no".
Once you get the map right Brennan, why change it? ;) |
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05/02/2013 11:07:40 AM · #403 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Once you get the map right Brennan, why change it? ;) |
I take it you've never heard of plate tectonics then? Or erosion, earthquakes, volcanoes ... or other "acts of God" as the insurance companies like to put it .. |
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05/02/2013 11:42:13 AM · #404 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Once you get the map right Brennan, why change it? ;) |
I take it you've never heard of plate tectonics then? Or erosion, earthquakes, volcanoes ... or other "acts of God" as the insurance companies like to put it .. |
You know, I think I see a solution, Sneezy just needs to come live/adventure in the desert for a few years. I assure you, here, you will either learn to ignore the map and defer to reality, or you will suffer serious consequences nearly immediately. :)
;) |
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05/02/2013 12:01:59 PM · #405 |
The lovely thing about these discussions is the little eddies that circle back on themselves.
"The map is not the territory" Alfred Korzybski.
Korzybski thought that people do not have access to direct knowledge of reality; rather they have access to perceptions and to a set of beliefs which human society has confused with direct knowledge of reality. Not exactly new territory since I see it as going back to Plato's cave.
We can only access the ideas we are capable of perceiving, yet those perceptions can not be assumed to be reality. When we put our faith in the perceptions of others, the probability of error in interpretation of that perceived reality is doubled. |
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05/02/2013 12:32:25 PM · #406 |
| I also enjoy how analogies become their own conversation and we wind up discussing maps and plate tectonics and the desert when, all along, it was an allegory for belief. |
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05/02/2013 01:08:44 PM · #407 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I also enjoy how analogies become their own conversation and we wind up discussing maps and plate tectonics and the desert when, all along, it was an allegory for belief. |
Yeah, but THEY are extending the allegory. In particular, Brennan's delightful segue over to Korzybski (who managed to raise a few interesting points in his lifetime) is rather apropos to BOTH sides of the debate, which is fairly sobering when you think about it :-) |
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05/02/2013 01:12:00 PM · #408 |
| It sorta sounds like solipsism which is a scary boogeyman with the one weakness that if you close your eyes and grit your teeth, *poof*, it disappears. |
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05/02/2013 01:33:34 PM · #409 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It sorta sounds like solipsism which is a scary boogeyman with the one weakness that if you close your eyes and grit your teeth, *poof*, it disappears. |
Well, nevertheless... Philosophers since the time of Plato have worked countless variations on the theme -- perception is not reality, the map is not the territory, you know the drill. And it's basically indisputable. I mean, it's PROVABLE that what we call perception is a flawed thing. Not always, of course. Nobody's saying that every perception, or even most perceptions, is/are "false", but...
To whatever extent there actually EXISTS an objective "reality" that is the universe and the components that constitute it, it's strikingly unlikely that we humans just happen to have the perceptive tools required to perceive "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." I mean, that's silly. Dogs and bats hear things we don't hear. There are wavelengths of light we cannot perceive. And these are just the levels of reality we can't directly perceive but nevertheless KNOW exist. So it boggles my mind when people insist that we've reached the limits of all this, that whatever's gone unproven to this point cannot exist.
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05/02/2013 02:10:44 PM · #410 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
it's strikingly unlikely that we humans just happen to have the perceptive tools required to perceive "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." I mean, that's silly. |
I once tried to bring up to my attorney in a deposition that I had issues with saying "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God." I mean, you are perjuring yourself before you even give testimony. He gave me the slow stare and encouraged me to just "say the f***ing words". Ah how we must sacrifice truth in our quest for justice.
Message edited by author 2013-05-02 19:05:58. |
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05/02/2013 02:31:00 PM · #411 |
That's funny, Brennan. Oh man, you have me chuckling. Maybe I should try that the next time someone isn't positive they want to "pray that prayer".
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05/02/2013 07:16:45 PM · #412 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I once tried to bring up to my attorney in a deposition that I had issues with saying "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God." I mean, you are perjuring yourself before you even give testimony. He gave me the slow stare and encouraged me to just "say the f***ing words". Ah how we must sacrifice truth in our quest for justice. |
reminds me of this:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IRxpjEZveQ |
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