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04/24/2013 02:47:07 PM · #351 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I'll just tell the atheist that it's scientifically impossible for one man to row about and then I'll sit back and relax while he uses both paddles to prove me wrong.
Problem solved. |
Never been in a row boat huh?
Ray |
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04/24/2013 02:57:36 PM · #352 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I'll just tell the atheist that it's scientifically impossible for one man to row about and then I'll sit back and relax while he uses both paddles to prove me wrong.
Problem solved. |
Never been in a row boat huh?
Ray |
Actually, I've rowed many boats in my day. I'm just making a point about some atheists' insatiable desire to prove theists wrong. I figure that if I can convince the atheist that I genuinely believe it is impossible for one person to row a boat, then he will take it upon himself to show me the extent of my stupidity. Of course, this would all be an attempt to trick the atheist into doing all the rowing so that I can enjoy an entertaining ride without expending any energy of my own. |
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04/24/2013 03:19:16 PM · #353 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Actually, I've rowed many boats in my day. I'm just making a point about some atheists' insatiable desire to prove theists wrong. |
So are you saying you said something you knew was obviously wrong just to get a reaction, or were you under the impression that it is impossible to row a boat without two paddles? It is hard for me to see a point about "some atheists' insatiable desire to prove theists wrong" when the theist who made the proposition is so clearly wrong. And this has nothing to do with theology, when you are wrong on an easily provable factual point, there is no recourse to a higher power. |
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04/24/2013 04:01:17 PM · #354 |
To carry on with the paddle analogy.
Why the hell are we paddling at all? We've got 1500 varieties of paddle, enough so that the boat is nearly sinking, each can only be used by a very specific group.
But, in the stern we have a 200 HP Black Max outboard that anyone can use, yet we keep taking on water every time we use the damned thing because of all these useless outdated paddles that some folks think we need on board, because the camping book says paddles work best, never mind that the book was written 20 years before the internal combustion engine was invented.
Message edited by author 2013-04-24 20:01:45. |
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04/24/2013 04:12:19 PM · #355 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I'll just tell the atheist that it's scientifically impossible for one man to row about and then I'll sit back and relax while he uses both paddles to prove me wrong.
Problem solved. |
Never been in a row boat huh?
Ray |
Row boats use oars, not paddles. ZING! :D |
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04/24/2013 05:03:39 PM · #356 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Of course, this would all be an attempt to trick the atheist into doing all the rowing so that I can enjoy an entertaining ride without expending any energy of my own. |
Well you should be used to that role. The scientist has always done the heavy lifting. The theist would find himself at the bottom of the ocean if not for the scientist, Spongebob.
Message edited by author 2013-04-24 21:04:04. |
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04/25/2013 01:34:31 AM · #357 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I'll just tell the atheist that it's scientifically impossible for one man to row about and then I'll sit back and relax while he uses both paddles to prove me wrong.
Problem solved. |
Never been in a row boat huh?
Ray |
Row boats use oars, not paddles. ZING! :D |
...as the man said: "Them ain't oars... them me sisters" :O)
Ray |
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04/25/2013 02:20:56 AM · #358 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I'm just making a point about some atheists' insatiable desire to prove theists wrong. |
Of course, these atheists with this insatiable desire to prove theists wrong are pretty rare. Much like any other extremist. The burden of proof lies on those who want to contend that God exists......proving a negative is a waste of time and energy.
I think you'd probably find most atheists don't give a hoot what you think. They know what they know, based on the world around them, and couldn't care less about any premise of a supernatural, omnipotent being.
The idea that you put forth that there are a bunch of people out there trying to defend their lack of belief as zealously as you defend your faith is simply not true.
It's mostly a non-issue.
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04/25/2013 03:58:53 AM · #359 |
| So much said; can any side, any group or any individual provide PROOF to support their view/argument or believe? Any one who died and came back who can actually share their experience? |
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04/25/2013 04:28:11 AM · #360 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
So much said; can any side, any group or any individual provide PROOF to support their view/argument or believe? Any one who died and came back who can actually share their experience? |
LOL! |
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04/25/2013 05:11:42 AM · #361 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Actually, I've rowed many boats in my day. I'm just making a point about some atheists' insatiable desire to prove theists wrong. |
Well, for a start we don't go around on Sunday mornings knocking on doors to tell people God doesn't exist.
The only desire I have is to avoid grown adults talking to me about God as if he exists. To me that's like adults talking about what presents they're gonna get from Santa Claus. Sometimes I find it difficult to keep a straight face, which only makes them mad.
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04/25/2013 07:23:47 AM · #362 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Actually, I've rowed many boats in my day. I'm just making a point about some atheists' insatiable desire to prove theists wrong. |
Well, for a start we don't go around on Sunday mornings knocking on doors to tell people God doesn't exist.
The only desire I have is to avoid grown adults talking to me about God as if he exists. To me that's like adults talking about what presents they're gonna get from Santa Claus. Sometimes I find it difficult to keep a straight face, which only makes them mad. |
+1. I just wish they would admit that its all adult make believe as readily as we'll admit science can make mistakes. I suppose that would ruin the fun though wouldn't it? Hard to pretend a broomstick is a pony when your mom keeps using its tail to clean the floors. |
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04/25/2013 08:42:49 AM · #363 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
The idea that you put forth that there are a bunch of people out there trying to defend their lack of belief as zealously as you defend your faith is simply not true. |
I guess all four of them have somehow found DPC Rant...
I like how JH starts by saying that at least he doesn't knock on doors on Sunday morning to tell us God doesn't exist...and then proceeds to tell us...God doesn't exist. And then Cory, like the big cat sidekick Benny in those Looney Tune shots chimes in right behind. |
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04/25/2013 08:53:03 AM · #364 |
| Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
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04/25/2013 09:00:43 AM · #365 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
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04/25/2013 09:12:13 AM · #366 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
The idea that you put forth that there are a bunch of people out there trying to defend their lack of belief as zealously as you defend your faith is simply not true. |
I guess all four of them have somehow found DPC Rant...
I like how JH starts by saying that at least he doesn't knock on doors on Sunday morning to tell us God doesn't exist...and then proceeds to tell us...God doesn't exist. And then Cory, like the big cat sidekick Benny in those Looney Tune shots chimes in right behind. |
First off, you're thinking of Top Cat, not big cat, secondly, he's right ya know.
I know you're going to respond with a "not real Christians" comment, since your group doesn't do this, and you guys are the only ones able to really represent Christianity accurately. Frankly, I don't care - tell me this - when you are talking to someone you consider a friend, and you find out that they don't share your religion, do you, or do you not, have an in-built compulsion to 'save' them? Whether your going door to door, or just nudging people every time you get the chance, it's all about the same - you're effectively lying, saying that you have answers and knowledge that you simply do not, your faith does not make it true, and your methods do not make it any less bothersome.
By the way, I'd like to take this opportunity to use a word that is one of your favorites: Bigot.
Do you even realize that bigotry is actually a built in function of your religion? It's actually a requirement - so while you love to throw that name around, I'd like to point out that you (as a Christian) are one of the most bigoted people on the face of the planet - exceeded only by the Muslims as far as religions go.
Originally posted by Definition of Bigot:
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (different from their own) with hatred and intolerance.
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04/25/2013 09:13:33 AM · #367 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
HA! I knew it was coming.
Seriously, your entire religion is going out of style - it's a show I'm watching with genuine glee. |
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04/25/2013 09:18:14 AM · #368 |
Well, get comfortable. We've been around for 2000 years. I'm guessing we'll make it another 50 at least (or whatever lifespan you have remaining). ;)
The New Atheist, in comparison, is like a newborn pup. Heck, one of your chief priests has already died, and the others are a bit long in the tooth. Fads come and fads go. |
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04/25/2013 09:22:19 AM · #369 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
HA! I knew it was coming.
Seriously, your entire religion is going out of style - it's a show I'm watching with genuine glee. |
There's no better example of intolerance in this forum than what you're peddling, Cory. I don't see any Christians mocking you because you don't believe; I don't even see the Christians trying to CONVERT you. I just see them defending their beliefs as best they can. I understand that you think religion is fairy tales. I understand that you think believers are brainwashed simpletons. But what I don't understand is your need to sneer at and mock believers, whilst at the same time accusing THEM of being the bigots...
Regardless of what YOU think the Christian doctrines "require", the fact remains that I have considerable experience of churches and churchly people, and for the most part the Christians I have known have been notable in their LACK of prejudice and bigotry. |
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04/25/2013 10:00:21 AM · #370 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
Well, I've had someone ask me if I "believed in Jesus" while we were crossing a busy intersection, but I didn't inquire as to which version of the one true religion they had in mind, just responding with my stock reply of I wished more people would live like Jesus said to, and quit arguing over His divinity since it seemed so irrelevant ... |
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04/25/2013 10:16:04 AM · #371 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
Well, I've had someone ask me if I "believed in Jesus" while we were crossing a busy intersection, but I didn't inquire as to which version of the one true religion they had in mind, just responding with my stock reply of I wished more people would live like Jesus said to, and quit arguing over His divinity since it seemed so irrelevant ... |
I'm sure your therapy bills have been enormous! ;) |
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04/25/2013 10:16:10 AM · #372 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
HA! I knew it was coming.
Seriously, your entire religion is going out of style - it's a show I'm watching with genuine glee. |
There's no better example of intolerance in this forum than what you're peddling, Cory. I don't see any Christians mocking you because you don't believe; I don't even see the Christians trying to CONVERT you. I just see them defending their beliefs as best they can. I understand that you think religion is fairy tales. I understand that you think believers are brainwashed simpletons. But what I don't understand is your need to sneer at and mock believers, whilst at the same time accusing THEM of being the bigots...
Regardless of what YOU think the Christian doctrines "require", the fact remains that I have considerable experience of churches and churchly people, and for the most part the Christians I have known have been notable in their LACK of prejudice and bigotry. |
I think it's that I've come to view religion as an evil that hinders our species greatly, and is passed along with force of threat to the young, before they are able to discern truth from lie. If that's not something to be detested with vehemence, then I'm not sure what would qualify.
Like it or not, the book teaches that there is only one answer, and that everyone else is flatly wrong. There is no real prescription on how to treat them other than to not cast fire down upon them with a curse, and the Samaritan story, but even in the story of the Samaritan, Jesus is sure to smugly let the woman know just how wrong she is. Sure, he didn't outright attack her, but just because the action was subtle doesn't make it less significant.
Do you really know Christians who think they're on equal footing with every other religion? I haven't met a one, they all KNOW they are right, and they KNOW everyone else is wrong.
As for me? Sure, I'm a bigot when it comes to religion. I am not a Christian, so this turn the other cheek business doesn't work for me Rob. They started a fight, they told me I was wrong, threatened me with various horrible things, and attempted to coerce me into joining their groups by telling me fantastic lies and assuring me they were absolutely certain the lies were truth. They did this from the time I was a small child, until today, sometimes it was very subtle, and kind, sometimes outright aggressively delivered - but it was ALWAYS delivered in a way that is best described as hugely manipulative.
So yeah. I didn't start this fight, but I'm damn sure in it to win it now, and I absolutely see it as a matter of great importance, worth my time and most vigorous assaults. Ridicule is only one of my tools, and is often the best way to discourage others from joining a group which is so easily ridiculed.
..
In the end, all of that is incidental though, since I'm really only talking about manifestations of the real issue at hand, which lies deep within the roots of Judeo-Christianity.
What I really want is for all religious folks to simply admit that they don't know a single thing about the nature or even the existence of God. I don't mind that they have their beliefs, what I mind is that they are convinced of this so strongly that they can't even recognize that they aren't working off of anything more than written words, laid down who knows how long ago by a goat farmer in the middle east somewhere.
Not only that, but this particular goat farmer (actually probably many thousands had a hand in this over the ages), needed more people in his group, to help farm and to help defend the territory. As such, the book was crafted in such a way that it serves more to coerce people to follow the religion than it does to really explain the world. I have no doubt it started like any other religion, simply a way to explain things through magical thinking.
What happened subsequently is the real issue, once that honest system of explanation was reconfigured to support the new mission as well as the old. It is these very pressures that have caused the fractionation of these religions, and is what drives a good deal of their activities and beliefs.
Each of their books were written in such a way to be persuasive, every verse, every chapter - each is designed to sway you to seek your fortunes with their group of believers, and to reject all other groups. Some even go so far as to demonize the other groups, probably so that any conflicts can be easily justified. It's a built into the very basis of these religions, and THIS is the real source of my objections.
If only they could cease with their attempts at manipulation and coercion tactics, then I wouldn't even mind them showing up at my door to tell me about their imaginary friends. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that their religion can never actually acquiesce to this, as doing so would require the reconstruction of the very foundation upon which these systems have been built.
Heck Robert, in truth, I even really enjoy listening to Navajo stories about their religion - probably because they're not trying to back it up with threats intended to coerce me into joining. Their stories exist only to explain the world, as they never needed to sway their audience so they could have more manpower and more tithings. |
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04/25/2013 03:03:51 PM · #373 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
Well, I've had someone ask me if I "believed in Jesus" while we were crossing a busy intersection, but I didn't inquire as to which version of the one true religion they had in mind, just responding with my stock reply of I wished more people would live like Jesus said to, and quit arguing over His divinity since it seemed so irrelevant ... |
I had one ask me that at a client meeting. It normally comes after "what church do you go to"? Down south they assume you go to one. |
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04/25/2013 03:16:06 PM · #374 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
...For me it was two weekends ago...can't remember exactly, but I do believe they called themselves Westlayen (phonetic). Right nice folks and interesting.
Ray |
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04/25/2013 03:25:34 PM · #375 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please, posting in a thread inviting comment on a subject does not equate to an unsolicited request for someone's attention at their home ... |
Please, when's the last time you've actually had someone show up at your door that wasn't a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? The technique has long gone out of style. |
...For me it was two weekends ago...can't remember exactly, but I do believe they called themselves Westlayen (phonetic). Right nice folks and interesting.
Ray |
Two weeks ago? Are you sure, Ray? Can you PROVE it? If you can't prove it, I don't believe it. (Just trying to take a page from y'all's playbook... :))
BTW, you were close...Westleyan. Named after John Westley. |
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