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04/01/2013 05:46:16 PM · #1 |
Hello,
My nephew, who is very good at PC and home network configuration is looking in to a certification program. I used to snoop around in this area and I know a "little". However, I'd like to get the opinion of others.
Is there a difference, as far as entry level employment, between the Cisco CCNA program and the CompTIA+ programs or are there other avenues?
Thanks for you help,
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04/01/2013 07:26:23 PM · #2 |
| Only thing I've ever seen around here is Cisco at the CC. I've got a friend who I think went through CISCO if you wanted me to put you in contact. |
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04/01/2013 08:11:11 PM · #3 |
| I would probably have him try Net+ before CCNA to dip his toe in the water. CCNA is a lot more intense then Net+ and you should prob know for sure you're into networking before trying CCNA |
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04/01/2013 08:19:21 PM · #4 |
Big difference. A+ and Network+ are entry level certifications. CCNA is a much greater level of knowledge. The Comptia certs cover the foundations that higher level certifications are built on. I recommend doing the Comptia certs first. Then if he wishes to go further, he has a good foundation of the fundamentals.
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04/01/2013 08:21:52 PM · #5 |
Also, Comptia is vendor neutral administered by a third party, while CCNA is from Cisco, and thus is vendor specific in the objectives.
I have A+, Network+, PDI+ and a Microsoft MCP. All considered entry level certifications.
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04/02/2013 02:28:29 AM · #6 |
I did my CCNA about a decade ago and back then it was almost mandatory for entry level network roles.
I'd go the Cisco route if your nephew is serious about network specific roles, (ie. enterprise networks), else look at other certifications if looking more at PC generalist, (ie. PC stores), jobs.
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04/02/2013 08:16:48 AM · #7 |
Everything everyone has said here is correct. A+ and Net+ lead to $14/hour entry level tech support jobs. CCNA is a better cert, leading to better jobs, but it may be too hard for a beginner. If he wants to go this route, I'd say get the A+/Net+, and/or maybe one of the Microsoft certs, get that first job, then start working on upgrading after he's earning some money. Like any entry level job, the money gets better once he has some actual job skills.
One thing nobody mentioned....there are a lot of for-profit "schools" out there that will give you $20-30k in student loans in exchange for some sort of minimal computer training. What you get out of these is $20-30k in debt and *maybe* a $14/hour tech support job. If he's going the A+/Net+ route and paying for it himself, he should be very price sensitive. A local community college or publicly funded vocational program may have a better course for a lot less money. If someone else is paying for it (vocational programs *love* to send people to courses like this), he should do his research and insist on going to the best school in the area.
Another option is to join the military as an IT Specialist. It's a steady job with benefits and free training, and when he gets out, he'll be qualified for a real job. The downside is that he might get shot at or blown up.
My real recommendation, however, would be a BS in something computer related. Yes, it's more expensive, and takes more time, but the lifetime earning potential will more than make up for the cost. At the very least, he should plan on eventually getting a college degree in something, even if he doesn't want to do it right now.
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04/02/2013 01:52:16 PM · #8 |
No need for a "program" for any of those entry level certs. Just the book/CD, learn and understand them, pass the exams, and be certified.
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04/02/2013 02:19:14 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
No need for a "program" for any of those entry level certs. Just the book/CD, learn and understand them, pass the exams, and be certified. |
That's what I did. I tend to prefer the self study route. Some people are more more comfortable with some formal guidance, however I suspect those people may not be the kind to pursue technology fields.
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04/02/2013 02:26:44 PM · #10 |
edit: i m doing more programming specific stuff so nvm my post.
Message edited by author 2013-04-02 18:27:31. |
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04/02/2013 03:27:20 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
No need for a "program" for any of those entry level certs. Just the book/CD, learn and understand them, pass the exams, and be certified. |
That's what I did. I tend to prefer the self study route. Some people are more more comfortable with some formal guidance, however I suspect those people may not be the kind to pursue technology fields. |
True in general, but I teach Security+ classes. For about 80% of the students, the main point of the class is to set a realistic pace and keep them moving forwards through the material. For the other 20%, about half of them have gaps in their knowledge and need remedial help, and the other half aren't going to pass anyway.
A lot of the people who sign up for the entry level training programs really don't know *anything*. They've either been signed up by some vocational counselor, or saw how they could make big bucks working with computers on TV. They often don't have the study skills or even basic reading ability to be able to do it on their own. Fortunately, by the time they get to me, they have some computer skills and a couple of years of work experience. |
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04/02/2013 05:24:48 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
No need for a "program" for any of those entry level certs. Just the book/CD, learn and understand them, pass the exams, and be certified. |
That's what I did. I tend to prefer the self study route. Some people are more more comfortable with some formal guidance, however I suspect those people may not be the kind to pursue technology fields. |
True in general, but I teach Security+ classes. For about 80% of the students, the main point of the class is to set a realistic pace and keep them moving forwards through the material. For the other 20%, about half of them have gaps in their knowledge and need remedial help, and the other half aren't going to pass anyway.
A lot of the people who sign up for the entry level training programs really don't know *anything*. They've either been signed up by some vocational counselor, or saw how they could make big bucks working with computers on TV. They often don't have the study skills or even basic reading ability to be able to do it on their own. Fortunately, by the time they get to me, they have some computer skills and a couple of years of work experience. |
The only thing school is good for is keg parties and hooking up.
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04/02/2013 06:20:58 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
The only thing school is good for is keg parties and hooking up. |
Like you would know about either of those things :D |
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04/02/2013 11:42:56 PM · #14 |
Limited time free access to the CCNA video course, (streamed).
//www.ine.com/self-paced/ccna/bootcamps.htm
Haven't looked into it but it's supposedly free. |
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04/03/2013 02:12:39 AM · #15 |
Hopefully you are responding in a joking manner. School can be the ideal avenue for some students, but clearly not all. Everyone learns in a different manner and so one size does not fit all when it comes to pedagogy. It is best to find an ideal fit for the learner. For me, either a face to face or online asynchronous learning setting is best. I have tried reading and memorization as my only learning method and it has been much harder (for me). I prefer to learn in a peer supported environment along with reading and videos.
Internetworking is a complex world and like others said, just getting a CCNA is a mountain of knowledge to acquire. I purchased three old, used routers to practice on at home and that helped me a lot (visual learner with tactile needs). It all depends upon the student. These days I am working through a series of online learning modules for certification for Carrier Ethernet optical networking. So, you build upon the previous learning and over time, you become the subject matter expert, but it takes time and dedication with insight into who you are and what is best for you.
When I was younger, I enjoyed the partying and social aspect way too much, and my learning suffered for it. However, now that I am old, I have been attending post secondary school for the past 20 years, and love it. With five certifications including a CCNA, three diplomas and three graduate degrees, it has been personally rewarding and helpful in my career. In fact, tonight is my last class in my last course for my fourth master's degree. The sad part is that I can not decide what to do next?
So, shape the learning experience to suit the needs of the learner.
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
No need for a "program" for any of those entry level certs. Just the book/CD, learn and understand them, pass the exams, and be certified. |
That's what I did. I tend to prefer the self study route. Some people are more more comfortable with some formal guidance, however I suspect those people may not be the kind to pursue technology fields. |
True in general, but I teach Security+ classes. For about 80% of the students, the main point of the class is to set a realistic pace and keep them moving forwards through the material. For the other 20%, about half of them have gaps in their knowledge and need remedial help, and the other half aren't going to pass anyway.
A lot of the people who sign up for the entry level training programs really don't know *anything*. They've either been signed up by some vocational counselor, or saw how they could make big bucks working with computers on TV. They often don't have the study skills or even basic reading ability to be able to do it on their own. Fortunately, by the time they get to me, they have some computer skills and a couple of years of work experience. |
The only thing school is good for is keg parties and hooking up. |
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04/03/2013 05:40:39 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Morgan:
Hopefully you are responding in a joking manner. School can be the ideal avenue for some students, but clearly not all. Everyone learns in a different manner and so one size does not fit all when it comes to pedagogy. It is best to find an ideal fit for the learner. For me, either a face to face or online asynchronous learning setting is best. I have tried reading and memorization as my only learning method and it has been much harder (for me). I prefer to learn in a peer supported environment along with reading and videos.
Internetworking is a complex world and like others said, just getting a CCNA is a mountain of knowledge to acquire. I purchased three old, used routers to practice on at home and that helped me a lot (visual learner with tactile needs). It all depends upon the student. These days I am working through a series of online learning modules for certification for Carrier Ethernet optical networking. So, you build upon the previous learning and over time, you become the subject matter expert, but it takes time and dedication with insight into who you are and what is best for you.
When I was younger, I enjoyed the partying and social aspect way too much, and my learning suffered for it. However, now that I am old, I have been attending post secondary school for the past 20 years, and love it. With five certifications including a CCNA, three diplomas and three graduate degrees, it has been personally rewarding and helpful in my career. In fact, tonight is my last class in my last course for my fourth master's degree. The sad part is that I can not decide what to do next?
So, shape the learning experience to suit the needs of the learner.
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
No need for a "program" for any of those entry level certs. Just the book/CD, learn and understand them, pass the exams, and be certified. |
That's what I did. I tend to prefer the self study route. Some people are more more comfortable with some formal guidance, however I suspect those people may not be the kind to pursue technology fields. |
True in general, but I teach Security+ classes. For about 80% of the students, the main point of the class is to set a realistic pace and keep them moving forwards through the material. For the other 20%, about half of them have gaps in their knowledge and need remedial help, and the other half aren't going to pass anyway.
A lot of the people who sign up for the entry level training programs really don't know *anything*. They've either been signed up by some vocational counselor, or saw how they could make big bucks working with computers on TV. They often don't have the study skills or even basic reading ability to be able to do it on their own. Fortunately, by the time they get to me, they have some computer skills and a couple of years of work experience. |
The only thing school is good for is keg parties and hooking up. |
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Me? Joke?
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04/03/2013 06:35:47 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Me? Joke? |
In fact, I'm halfway through the 'Professional Engineering Geologist' CD and monthly magazine certification at the moment. I'll be out digging up mountains in a month or two. |
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04/03/2013 06:37:59 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Me == Joke. |
FIFY
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04/03/2013 06:49:42 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Me? Joke? |
In fact, I'm halfway through the 'Professional Engineering Geologist' CD and monthly magazine certification at the moment. I'll be out digging up mountains in a month or two. |
Just be sure you put 'em back the way you found 'em when you're done with practicing, OK? That's important :-) |
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04/04/2013 03:59:20 AM · #20 |
As a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) and a member of the Project Management Institute, I am required to re-certify my designation every three years. In January 2013, I was approved until 2016. However, I have already earned more than enough credits since January to certify for the next cycle taking my credential certification out until 2019. This is the fastest that I have ever re-certified - less than 3 months! So, attending graduate school part-time while I work has its collateral benefits.
Most worthwhile designations, including my networking designations, require PDUs (Professional Development Units) to maintain your knowledge and expertise and to demonstrate an ongoing learning approach to the practice, regardless of the topic. Other industries like medicine, education, and finance have similar requirements. So, finding the right networking certification is critical to success and the best one's demand PDUs, re-certification, and lifelong learning. |
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04/04/2013 06:31:05 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Morgan:
As a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) |
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04/04/2013 07:40:52 AM · #22 |
| There are also plenty of sites on the interwebz that share Question and Answer documents.. Some may be of current exams and people sometimes just study these 'dumps' instead of learning the material... |
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04/04/2013 08:27:55 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by IAmEliKatz:
Some may be of current exams and people sometimes just study these 'dumps' instead of learning the material... |
I see little point in brain dumps. If you just memorize answers, you will fail the moment you are out in the real world and have to troubleshoot something. I have heard many tales like that. Brand new MCSE on their first job gets handed a motherboard and told to go replace it in someone's PC and doesn't have the slightest clue what to do.
If you actually understand the concepts involved, you can figure things out even if they present themselves a bit differently than what you have seen before. When I did the N+, I would say a full 1/2 of the test was based on having a thorough knowledge of the OSI model and how all the protocols worked together and fit in. If I had just memorized some answers I would have failed. As it was, it was a fairly easy test because I understood the concepts.
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04/04/2013 09:06:51 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
a thorough knowledge of the OSI model |
+10^1000
This is the foundation. If you have a strong understanding of OSI and you will go places.
A person's Facepalms-From-Others coefficient goes asymptotically low the more you understand OSI. |
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04/04/2013 09:18:41 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Morgan:
As a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) |
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I thought the same thing! :-D
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