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08/25/2004 10:27:40 AM · #1 |
| What's with all the negative critiques, remember it's art too.....Just because you think it's too blurry or too dark or too light doesn't mean that your opinion is right! If you're a professional photographer and actually know what you're talking about, that's ok.....but other wise...please...... |
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08/25/2004 10:30:23 AM · #2 |
welcome to DPC voting. Very unpredictable, but usually the best wins, but everyone gets comments all over the place. Were just having fun, I think!
Message edited by author 2004-08-25 14:31:01. |
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08/25/2004 10:33:24 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by vtruan:
welcome to DPC voting. Very unpredictable, but usually the best wins, but everyone gets comments all over the place. Were just having fun, I think! |
vtruan is right, that goes for the voting also, may get a 9 and the next vote is a 2. Everyone sees something different in a picture. |
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08/25/2004 10:33:38 AM · #4 |
| It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
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08/25/2004 10:38:18 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
don't get discouraged; there are many great photographers here to learn from. But you have to take some comments with a grain of salt and move on. |
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08/25/2004 10:41:57 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
I think you will eventually find that there are many here that may not have evolved far enough yet to produce the vision they see in their mind's eye or always be able to produce the kind of work they always want to, but many have an excellent "eye", grasp of the essentials, and just their own personal taste that gives them the ability to render excellent opinions and suggestions on other peoples' shots quite often. It is easier to distance yourself, also. I am not very accomplished at all and I am one of the people you would wonder about, but I think I have a decent idea or quality within the boundaries of my taste (which is nearly impossibile to completely ignore). Have you ever felt that you can step back and give that last piece of detailed commentary on a photo that you wish you could have taken that far and then just put this last piece into place? I hope this makes some kind of sense to you. I think we have all thought the same thing at times.
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08/25/2004 10:48:25 AM · #7 |
| Thanks Everyone. It's my first challenge and was kind of discouraged by the response I recieved |
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08/25/2004 10:53:54 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
Do you need to be able to build a car yourself to be able to appreciate a good ride, to be able to construct a building yourself to be able to understand what makes a good home?
I would not judge the value of comments based on the commenter's own work since the skills of making a good photograph are quite separate from the skills of being able to see and communicate about what makes one.
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08/25/2004 10:55:43 AM · #9 |
I was thinking exactly what Kylie said - thanks for saving me the time to type it out ;)
I understand your frustration .. Personally, I like to give my honest opinion, good or bad. I am by no means a professional, but I do know what looks good and I'm not afraid to say what I don't like about a particular image.
Bottom line - don't get discouraged by remarks like that. Learn from them. Take them into consideration. If a majority of people say your image is too blurry or too dark, then take those comments and remember them the next time you submit an image. :) I wish you the best of luck
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08/25/2004 10:59:37 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
Thanks Everyone. It's my first challenge and was kind of discouraged by the response I recieved |
Hang in there - my first entry was a picture of a bug - I had no idea how sick and tired of bug pictures people were! By reading the forums and participating in more challenges you will find that making a great photo and winning a ribbon are not necessarily the same thing.
You will also find that most people are trying to be helpful and after a while you will want any comments, any at all! (even if they are negative)... Take what advice you like, and leave the rest. |
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08/25/2004 11:23:01 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
I think you will eventually find that there are many here that may not have evolved far enough yet to produce the vision they see in their mind's eye or always be able to produce the kind of work they always want to, but many have an excellent "eye", grasp of the essentials, and just their own personal taste that gives them the ability to render excellent opinions and suggestions on other peoples' shots quite often. It is easier to distance yourself, also. I am not very accomplished at all and I am one of the people you would wonder about, but I think I have a decent idea or quality within the boundaries of my taste (which is nearly impossibile to completely ignore). Have you ever felt that you can step back and give that last piece of detailed commentary on a photo that you wish you could have taken that far and then just put this last piece into place? I hope this makes some kind of sense to you. I think we have all thought the same thing at times. |
I agree, Kylie...I definately feel like one of the dorks who has a good eye and can critique pictures, but I just need to learn to take the pictures I like! All in good time... |
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08/25/2004 12:10:06 PM · #12 |
I personally love getting negative comments that elaborate on what is wrong and how to improve. Sometimes it might be something that I totally missed and they are completely right, sometimes I might disagree with the comment completely.
One thing I've learnt from real life critiques in art school (I go to Brown but Rhode Island School of Design is right next door so I get to take classes there) is that you should always give some positive and some negative comments, always try to explain your thinking and always use starters like 'i think...', 'in my opinion...', 'i like...', 'i dont like....', 'i wish...' etc. If everyone just left comments like cool, great, good, great, excellent, without elaborating we will never improve.
So bring on the negative comments! balance them with some positive, elaborate your point and always use 'I' statements!
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08/25/2004 12:54:56 PM · #13 |
You know making comments is one of the hardest steps to take for new members.
There is the fear that there comments will be completly wrong.
There is the fear that they may be abused here in the forum or via pm for their "seen to be incorrect" comments.
There is a fear of public humilliation.
Making comments should always be encoraged as it is also one of the ways we (receiver and commenter) learn. It makes us look at a photo not just for the few seconds that it takes to form an opinion and vote but to really "look" for things.
I like to see if there is a pattern to the comments that I receive for a photo and use that pattern to improve, but for that to happen I need to have more than 1 2 or 3 comments and sometimes that is all you get when you have a submission with what you believe to be a very low and undeserved score.
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08/25/2004 12:59:07 PM · #14 |
I encourage everone to review this Site Tutorial:
9 Guidelines for Giving and Receiving Feedback |
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08/25/2004 01:09:48 PM · #15 |
| Yes I got a comment on my color being muted and the picture being overly dark, which is exactly how I wanted it to be, so that the attention was drawn to a certain point... Grr |
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08/25/2004 01:27:26 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
Yes I got a comment on my color being muted and the picture being overly dark, which is exactly how I wanted it to be, so that the attention was drawn to a certain point... Grr |
You should take that as a positive, you have achieved what you wanted. |
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08/28/2004 03:05:19 PM · #17 |
| I just got a comment that I was really offended by. Someone informed me that my photo was not appealing at all. That angers me, because they fail to tell me why. It's like, if you honestly hate my photography, then go ahead and hate it, but atleast tell me why you hate it. Don't just be an elitist jerk & think that you can make comments like that without explaining yourself. |
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08/28/2004 03:10:05 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by midnightride2:
Originally posted by vtruan:
welcome to DPC voting. Very unpredictable, but usually the best wins, but everyone gets comments all over the place. Were just having fun, I think! |
vtruan is right, that goes for the voting also, may get a 9 and the next vote is a 2. Everyone sees something different in a picture. |
The latter part of this is my dpc story. I love my shots so who cares how folks vote? Not me. If it does poorly, oh well. If it does well, cudos to me. Got to take thigns in stride, ya know!
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08/28/2004 03:10:28 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
Do you need to be able to build a car yourself to be able to appreciate a good ride, to be able to construct a building yourself to be able to understand what makes a good home?
I would not judge the value of comments based on the commenter's own work since the skills of making a good photograph are quite separate from the skills of being able to see and communicate about what makes one. |
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08/28/2004 03:11:44 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by JuneBug28:
It's really confusing. the people doing the citiques make it sound like they know what they're talking about....then I look at they're photos and think what's the deal? |
This is the main reason I don't make too many comments anymore. On 2 previously challenges I've made comments on every picture, but have since made hardly any comments because of a PM that I received from a person with an expensive camera talking about my camera and my pictures.
I used to make the effort of giving out all least 100-150 comments a week but make so few now a days. I guess I won't make comments until I win a ribbon or buy a good camera.
Message edited by author 2004-08-28 19:13:55. |
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08/28/2004 03:14:06 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by alisasaur:
I just got a comment that I was really offended by. Someone informed me that my photo was not appealing at all. That angers me, because they fail to tell me why. It's like, if you honestly hate my photography, then go ahead and hate it, but atleast tell me why you hate it. Don't just be an elitist jerk & think that you can make comments like that without explaining yourself. |
I have recently adopted a new tactic when leaving comments. I try to visualize that the photo has been given to me by a friend (or maybe a DPC acquaintance) and specifically asked me for my feedback about it. I find that it's virtually impossible to be abrupt or unintentionally disparaging when holding a picture in my mind of an (imaginary) person I'm addressing. I find that my comments are much more critical (in a positive way) and thoughtful.
(does it seem like I like parentheses?) |
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08/28/2004 03:16:30 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by strangeghost:
Originally posted by alisasaur:
I just got a comment that I was really offended by. Someone informed me that my photo was not appealing at all. That angers me, because they fail to tell me why. It's like, if you honestly hate my photography, then go ahead and hate it, but atleast tell me why you hate it. Don't just be an elitist jerk & think that you can make comments like that without explaining yourself. |
I have recently adopted a new tactic when leaving comments. I try to visualize that the photo has been given to me by a friend (or maybe a DPC acquaintance) and specifically asked me for my feedback about it. I find that it's virtually impossible to be abrupt or unintentionally disparaging when holding a picture in my mind of an (imaginary) person I'm addressing. I find that my comments are much more critical (in a positive way) and thoughtful.
(does it seem like I like parentheses?) |
I think that's a great way to vote & comment. I think it's so important to back up your critique. People can come off very harsh when they do not tell you why your shot is boring. |
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08/28/2004 03:27:07 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by faidoi:
...
This is the main reason I don't make too many comments anymore. On 2 previously challenges I've made comments on every picture, but have since made hardly any comments because of a PM that I received from a person with an expensive camera talking about my camera and my pictures.
I used to make the effort of giving out all least 100-150 comments a week but make so few now a days. I guess I won't make comments until I win a ribbon or buy a good camera. |
This really saddens me faidoi, your comments are always so insightful! The comments give us a unique opportunity to see our work through others eyes. Though we may not like what the commenter has to say, may not think they make sense .....they are commenting on what we have presented.
It's often not until my image is in the challenge gallery, I can view it alongside other work, read the comments, that I can begin to see the strengths/weaknesses of what I've done. I, personally, didn't come here to be patted on the back and be told how great my pics are......I came to learn! And with the comments and helpful peops here, you can't help but do that. |
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08/28/2004 03:30:19 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by faidoi:
This is the main reason I don't make too many comments anymore. On 2 previously challenges I've made comments on every picture, but have since made hardly any comments because of a PM that I received from a person with an expensive camera talking about my camera and my pictures.
I used to make the effort of giving out all least 100-150 comments a week but make so few now a days. I guess I won't make comments until I win a ribbon or buy a good camera. |
Please comment again Welland. Don't let the assholes get you down. |
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08/28/2004 03:37:12 PM · #25 |
I agree, Welland. Don't stop commenting, your comments are often very insightful.
Those who can't see the value of comments from anyone other than ribbon winners are very short sighted and if they elect to ignore criticisms just because of who they are from rather than according to the validity of the points made they are the ones who will lose out.
Then there are those who only appreciate comments that are positive or that echo their own narrow thoughts about their entry.
However the majority of members are much more open minded and do value all comments that offer honest and useful critique and it is these people who are most missing out if you are driven not to comment.
:o(
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