Votes Squared - DPChallenge Forums

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

05/09/2011 07:04:14 AM · #227

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by hahn23:
As a footnote, there was a subsequent challenge, 30 Seconds or More. In that challenge, there were yellow flag special rules added saying, "Let's try this again.. not meeting the challenge is grounds for DQ; your EXIF data MUST show an exposure of 30 seconds or more."

For future challenges with a specific parameter requirement, there should be yellow flag extra rules like those mentioned above. There would be a clear educational benefit arising from learning how to produce a specific image parameter result, rather than just "eyeballing" the image.

I was thinking the same thing. DNMC can't be used as grounds for DQ in a lot of challenges because the challenge is open to interpretation. However, when there is such an easy measurement of what is required, this extra rule would make sense. But in terms of the rules for this one, JulietNN won fair and "square".

Well, okay! Sure, the voters are always right. More power to her, if she is wise enough to ignore the challenge requirements and submit an image so good it causes most voters to reward the image with a high score in spite of being a visible rectangular crop. The voters didn't care or didn't notice. The fools and the losers are those of us who tried to meet the challenge in good faith. Live and learn!

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

05/09/2011 07:16:17 AM · #228

Originally posted by hahn23:

I didn't vote the entire challenge and that one didn't come up for me, so I don't know if I would have noticed it wasn't quite square, and I don't know how I would have voted. This situation reinforces my observations that having a visually strong image is a FAR more important factor in one's challenge success than meeting all interpretations of the topic is. A strong image will usually survive some DNMC votes, but a weak image that fits the topic perfectly will get creamed.

Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX APO IF HSM for Nikon

05/09/2011 07:28:50 AM · #229

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by hahn23:
Well, okay! Sure, the voters are always right. More power to her, if she is wise enough to ignore the challenge requirements and submit an image so good it causes most voters to reward the image with a high score in spite of being a visible rectangular crop. The voters didn't care or didn't notice. The fools and the losers are those of us who tried to meet the challenge in good faith. Live and learn!

I didn't vote the entire challenge and that one didn't come up for me, so I don't know if I would have noticed it wasn't quite square, and I don't know how I would have voted. This situation reinforces my observations that having a visually strong image is a FAR more important factor in one's challenge success than meeting all interpretations of the topic is. A strong image will usually survive some DNMC votes, but a weak image that fits the topic perfectly will get creamed.

I agree. Well said! My only other comment is that a rectangle will have a natural advantage over a square format, in a compositional sense. If this challenge comes up again without yellow flag special rules, I'll submit a subliminally more eye-pleasing rectangle, too.
Sometimes, it is hard to see 100 pixels over a square. It's not much of a slice...

HarveyG

Nikon D800

05/09/2011 07:36:50 AM · #230

I didn't see the square crop as an interpretation. I saw it as a requirement. It was specifically mentioned and the challenge named as such. Nothing ambiguous about it. For many of us using photo editing software for so long and familiar with the crop tool it's a bit cheeky to enter something that is not 100% square, and there were many that didn't meet the specified requirement of the challenge.

JulietNN

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

05/09/2011 07:47:35 AM · #231

This is what I wrote on my notes for the picture this morning, with a few more notes attached.

Now this square crop issue. When editing it, I cropped it to a square. Granted I eyeballed it. To me it looked square in PS, uploaded it, it looked square and still looks square.

When I started to get a couple of comments about it not being square, I looked through all the other photos in the challenge. They all looked square to me as well.

But when

KarenNfld pointed out how to use the EXIF data thing, it really does show that I am not a square. BUT I still see a square.

I pointed out my non-squareness immediately in the thread ( I believe the 2nd page) , that my shot was not as square as I thought it was. It immediately dropped from 7.569 to 6.4 over 2 days.

It went back up after a while, there are other people as well that think it is square.

The photo was out there to be judged by others, if they thought it was a square or not square, they had all the evidence to see that and every single person that voted, did so on their OWN merits.

So I believe in the end, it is how we see it, we all know that the voters will DNMC harshly , even if it is a pretty picture.

So I take it that a lot of other people saw it square as well or it would not be where it is now.

Marc923

05/09/2011 07:52:51 AM · #232

Originally posted by hahn23:

The voters didn't care or didn't notice.

That's it in a nutshell.

bohemka

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

05/09/2011 07:55:31 AM · #233

Well I see it as a complete non-issue as the crop didn't provide any advantage. Cropped square the image is virtually identical and would have only done better. That said, you do have to laugh at DPC's ability to award the blue to a non-square image in the square challenge, and maybe even chuckle a little more at a masterful post-processor choosing to "eyeball" a square instead of cropping with a fixed aspect ratio.

No offense intended at all, of course. But I do find it amusing.

CJinCA

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/09/2011 07:58:28 AM · #234

Originally posted by bohemka:

+1! LOL!

I didn't enter or vote in this one but I must say the whole thing made me laugh. :-)

Message edited by author 2011-05-09 11:59:39.

Socom

Nikon D80

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-70mm 1:35-4.5G ED

05/09/2011 07:58:31 AM · #235

I think in many cases, unless it was extremely obvious that it was not square (ie the image didnt show it was out of whack based on the shot itself) we as voters just assumed it was square as that was the challenge requirements, so we assumed anyting being voted on was ok to vote as sqaure. After we found out that was the case, I am sure a lot of folks looked back to see which were and were not.

Just for point of conversation, when I first looked (before this came up in thread) I noticed 3 were not square. Afterwards going back, there were way more, and some were even off by more then the 3 I did notice, but the type of shot hid the fact.

I agree that JulietNN's shot was excellent, however it wasn't square, it is a square challenge. If there is a specific requirement it should be met.

Why eyeball something that is a requirement, I dont understand that.

05/09/2011 10:36:36 AM · #236

Im one for sticking to the rules...see the 2second challenge thread...but I have to say that when I voyed for the surf shot, it looked square to me.

kleski

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/09/2011 10:51:01 AM · #237

When I first entered this challenge my first thought was that the picture must be cropped square. However, the challenge description is misleading in that it says, "Compose a picture that benefits from a square crop". What it doesn't say is, "Compose a picture that is balanced within a square crop. (Hint: your submission should have equal height and width to help avoid "does not meet the challenge" comments.) as the first Square Crop challenge specified. Reading the Square Crop II challenge description I would say that anyone who cropped their photo square DNMC. If it were otherwise the description would have been the same as Square Crop I.

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

05/09/2011 11:16:13 AM · #238

LOL....you pretty much solved this whole issue....."benefits from a square crop" does not mean it HAS to be a square crop. It could have been any shape and up to the voters to determine if it would have "benefited" from a square crop.

It's over...........

Originally posted by kleski:

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

05/09/2011 11:38:20 AM · #239

Originally posted by kenskid:

Playing semantics games now...

05/09/2011 11:45:04 AM · #240

I know...but like Greg Brady wanted to do...."live by exact words" !

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by kenskid:
LOL....you pretty much solved this whole issue....."benefits from a square crop" does not mean it HAS to be a square crop. It could have been any shape and up to the voters to determine if it would have "benefited" from a square crop.

Playing semantics games now...

05/09/2011 11:55:28 AM · #241

It's a compliment to

JulietNN that her images are so good they fool our eyes and/or hypnotize us. LOL!!!! It's an art form. (Really, nothing is moving in these images. It's your eyes and your brain's attempt to reconcile.)

Message edited by author 2011-05-09 15:57:39.

05/09/2011 12:43:04 PM · #242

LOL....well I can say for one...It looked square to me...in fact...it still does...even though I know different.

Also, on the shots below...I can stop the motion by staring at one spot.

Originally posted by hahn23:

Has anyone pondered the phenomenon of so many voters not noticing the un-squareness, including the image's author? Let's assume everyone's monitor is set to the correct aspect ratio. I think it's fair to say most voters saw the Blue Ribbon image as SQUARE! It is a beautiful image of a surfer in a rolling wave. We may be observing a real, yet very subtle, optical illusion. It may be an issue of simple eye assimilation of color in between the gaps. Not unlike the optical illusion images below:

It's a compliment to JulietNN that her images are so good they fool our eyes and/or hypnotize us. LOL!!!! It's an art form. (Really, nothing is moving in these images. It's your eyes and your brain's attempt to reconcile.)

05/09/2011 12:49:37 PM · #243

Originally posted by kenskid:

LOL....well I can say for one...It looked square to me...in fact...it still does...even though I know different.

Also, on the shots below...I can stop the motion by staring at one spot....

That explains a lot. Are you blind in one or both eyes?

JulietNN

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

05/09/2011 01:05:07 PM · #244

It is all a mute point right now, as I am a dumbarse who can not make a square or tell the right date (I had gone to CA to shoot, shot, but did not have my laptop, so downloaded everything 5 days later, didnt even bother to look at the date stamp as I was sure I shot these in Del Mar and not Huntington. It would appear that my head is not in the game anymore and I need to fix that)

but

I stuck it on FB and asked people if they thought it looked square to them or not.

mostly because I am interested in this optical illusion idea, because it crossed my mind this morning and I was wondering if it was the curl of the wave that is making it look like it is square to me. So be interesting to see what other people say too.

((((((((((and yes, I will always use the crop ration tool from now on)))

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/09/2011 01:18:13 PM · #245

Only if I stare and study it would I say it might not be square. But, it is close enough that I would say it was "square" -- definitely not a circle or triangle!

CJinCA

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/09/2011 01:24:25 PM · #246

It's weird as I took one look at the front page and immediately thought it wasn't square. I think if when we vote we have to scroll an image up and down to read the title or view the whole image, we would never notice if it were square or not. It's only apparent to me when I see the whole image, whether in a thumbnail or on a big monitor.