Hot Shoe Diaries - DPChallenge Forums

09/24/2010 05:18:03 PM · #101

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

RE: White balance-

My guess is that your problem is mixed lighting temperature. Was there incandescent light illuminating part of the room?
I'm thinking your camera is using a WB setting for flash (daylight) and there is some light contamination which is going to look increasingly yellow because you're balanced away from it. That's why it looks normal without flash... it's using a WB appropriate for incandescent. Gel your flashes, change your contaminating lights, or kill ambient.

That's what's not making any sense to me. There were no lights on. The only light affecting the shot was flash and light through windows. Both of which should been very similar light. Neither of which should have been anywhere near that yellow. :(

09/24/2010 05:25:47 PM · #102

Hm. That is curious. What actual WB value are the photos tagged with? I know it was AWB but I know with my Nikon it still records the actual value it chooses.

What shutter speed were you shooting with? I would still try upping to your sync speed and see if that kills the effect at all.

09/25/2010 04:31:41 AM · #103

Originally posted by vawendy:

no flash:

Flash:

Here's the info -- it is tagged with an auto white balance. Though the temp shows as 3300 for the one without flash and 5500 for the one with flash. The photo without flash is 1/6 seconds and with flash is 1/15 seconds. So it's plenty of time for ambient light to come in -- but the 1/6 shows that the ambient light is definitely daylight. I would have thought I could shoot AV with flash at a low shutter speed without it affecting the color this much (as long as it wasn't mixed lighting. And I assumed that daylight/flash wasn't that mixed...)

09/26/2010 07:56:39 PM · #104

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by vawendy:

no flash:

Flash:

Here's the info -- it is tagged with an auto white balance. Though the temp shows as 3300 for the one without flash and 5500 for the one with flash. The photo without flash is 1/6 seconds and with flash is 1/15 seconds. So it's plenty of time for ambient light to come in -- but the 1/6 shows that the ambient light is definitely daylight. I would have thought I could shoot AV with flash at a low shutter speed without it affecting the color this much (as long as it wasn't mixed lighting. And I assumed that daylight/flash wasn't that mixed...)

Well, there's your problem. I think you do have multiple temperatures of light in your scene, if your camera is varying that much. Your first shot is with a warm WB, 3300. 5500 is more typical of standard daylight. Somewhere you've got warm light coming in. What time of day were these shot? Sunrise/sunset? That would be warmer light. The term "daylight" is misleading, because the WB can vary hugely. The WB difference between sunrise/sunset vs shade is HUGE. The WB of the 580EX II should be around what your camera chose for the "with flash" shot, so I have to revert to warm ambient contaminating your scene somehow.
If your ambient is the same color as your flash, it doesn't matter what your shutter duration is, because they're the same. But you seem to have two different colors, for whatever reason. Because of this, you need to choose one of them and either kill ambient, or gel flash to match it. If you think your flash is wonky colored shoot a graycard in low light conditions, 1/250 f/8 using flash and see what is correct for it.

09/28/2010 02:25:09 AM · #105

Sorry! I had to pull some of the pictures because I'm out of storage space on DPC, and was having bigger issues with the 7D, so had to pull flash photos for grain photos.

Can you buy more storage space on DPC? I can't seem to find where you'd do it...

09/28/2010 03:34:56 AM · #106

Originally posted by vawendy:

Depends what you already have. I don't think you can exceed 1,000mb. I currently have that and there is no option to tack on more, but you can check your own status by going to the subscription page.

Pentax DA 16-45mm f/4.0 ED AL AF

09/30/2010 04:01:01 PM · #107

Ok -- I'm back to playing with flash again:

I've been reading the strobist lighting 101 stuff. And here's a quote

"Maybe you turn the angle around and shoot the subject in profile. Say he is facing to your right. You could have him looking into the sun, which is now angled to come from slightly behind his face to provide nice (but too contrasty) rim light. Just move your strobe over to the left side, elevate it a little, and you have a cool-looking, two-light setup.

Whatever the angle, the technique for balancing is the same. We are basing the exposure on the ambient this time, and bringing the flash up to fill shadows and/or provide light from another direction.

Assuming a sunny ambient to balance, set your camera at the highest synch speed (i.e. lowest aperture) to ease the burden on your flash. Now, get your base (ambient) exposure. We'll call it a 250th at f/11 at ASA 200 for the sake of argument.

Now, with your strobe on manual and on a stand, set it to somewhere around a quarter to half power if you are working close. Maybe half to full power if the flash is further away. If you are not lighting a large area (and you usually are not) zoom the flash to a 70mm or 85mm lens angle to make it even more powerful."

If I'm bouncing off an umbrella, do I still use it at 1/2 power? How do I know when to use it at 1/4, 1/2, full? Is there some sort of "rule of thumb" for this?

Message edited by author 2010-09-30 20:01:16.

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

09/30/2010 04:19:02 PM · #108

Originally posted by vawendy:

If I'm bouncing off an umbrella, do I still use it at 1/2 power? How do I know when to use it at 1/4, 1/2, full? Is there some sort of "rule of thumb" for this?

I just chimp and check the histogram and adjust as needed, probably not the best if you are doing a wedding though.

If I remember correctly (which isn't likely) I think it depends on your umbrella. I believe they are rated to how much light the stop or loose. I think decent ones are maybe 1/2 stop. Again just trying to remember here. Sorry if that isn't much help.

alohadave

Pentax K-5

09/30/2010 05:21:03 PM · #109

If I'm bouncing off an umbrella, do I still use it at 1/2 power? How do I know when to use it at 1/4, 1/2, full? Is there some sort of "rule of thumb" for this?

Figure that just about any modifier (a bounce umbrella in this case) is going to eat 1-2 stops of flash power.

The easiest thing to do is to is to chimp and see how it looks, and adjust from there.

10/10/2010 06:19:19 PM · #110

Originally posted by alohadave:

This is where a light meter is vital, especially at a wedding! Time is of the essence and chimping and adjusting wastes time.

10/10/2010 06:30:25 PM · #111

Here is the lighting for these shots. Wendy you were asking for the details...

For these individual shots I had 1 speedlite with a bounce umbrella setup on a mono pod with

Quigley acting as my boom.
If i remember correctly, the sun was on the right side of each of these shots and I had Max position the lite on the opposite side to fill in the shadows. Easy! This particular day I think we set the speedlite on one setting and then adjusted the distance to get the light right. If it was too strong I asked MAx to move the light back and vise versa.

This is actually a composite photo. Because of the location and time, I decided it would be easier to shoot each guy individually with one light same as the previous shot(s). So setup up tripod and had 1 guy at a time step in and shoot. Then i masked in each guy.The background and base that they were standing on were all original(except for maybe the odd branch in the background i cloned out.

any more questions?

10/10/2010 08:08:22 PM · #112

Originally posted by LVicari:

Here is the lighting for these shots. Wendy you were asking for the details...

For these individual shots I had 1 speedlite with a bounce umbrella setup on a mono pod with Quigley acting as my boom.
If i remember correctly, the sun was on the right side of each of these shots and I had Max position the lite on the opposite side to fill in the shadows. Easy! This particular day I think we set the speedlite on one setting and then adjusted the distance to get the light right. If it was too strong I asked MAx to move the light back and vise versa.

This is actually a composite photo. Because of the location and time, I decided it would be easier to shoot each guy individually with one light same as the previous shot(s). So setup up tripod and had 1 guy at a time step in and shoot. Then i masked in each guy.The background and base that they were standing on were all original(except for maybe the odd branch in the background i cloned out.

any more questions?

So was it just cross lighting? Was the speedlight directly across from the sun? Or were they at angles?

10/11/2010 01:59:43 AM · #113

Yes pretty much crosslight. Usually the umbrella was hi and pointing down at each guy.

10/11/2010 02:51:35 AM · #114

I'm having a hard time having my flash do anything when it comes to bright sunlight.

I found this fisherman down at my favorite trees. I know I was a little far away, but I still thought that I could do something with the flash.

This is the result:

You can tell by comparing that one and this one without the flash,

that it did a tiny bit -- but hardly nothing. I believe that I bumped up the FEV to +3, and it still did nothing.

I just can't seem to do anything when the light is very bright. What am I missing?

Pentax DA 16-45mm f/4.0 ED AL AF

10/11/2010 05:46:23 AM · #115

Your flash isn't that powerful. That flash needs to be closer. Can't comment on the FEV setting. I don't use it.
ETA are you sure it fired. On second look I don't see any trace of light.

Message edited by author 2010-10-11 09:48:51.

alohadave

Pentax K-5

10/11/2010 08:57:22 AM · #116

Originally posted by vawendy:

that it did a tiny bit -- but hardly nothing. I believe that I bumped up the FEV to +3, and it still did nothing.

I just can't seem to do anything when the light is very bright. What am I missing?

FEV uses your camera's meter to determine what power to set the flash at. Since your sky is well exposed, it will try to set the flash 3 stops brighter than the sky. The problem is that your flash most likely can't go that powerful, and with the distance of the flash from the person, you lose even more power.

Pentax DA 16-45mm f/4.0 ED AL AF

10/11/2010 09:49:56 AM · #117

I checked the metadata, and it fired. I also noticed there's a huge difference between the flash output on high speed and normal. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get bright sunlight to be less than 1/250. Does anyone use neutral density filters just to work with flash?

alohadave

Pentax K-5

10/11/2010 11:36:47 AM · #118

Originally posted by vawendy:

High speed also eats a lot of power. It's a series of lower powered pulses of light, rather than a single flash of light.

If you want to get below 1/250, you can stop down your aperture, lower your ISO, or use ND filters.

ND filters will reduce the ambient light, but it will also reduce the light from the flash so it has work harder.

10/11/2010 01:05:13 PM · #119

Originally posted by vawendy:

Yeah, at a certain point you need to either add more speedlights or go with a single bigger unit. Using the zoom on your flash will help with this some. I don't remember the exact distance on this shot, but the addition of my SB-900 zoomed @ 200 and fired at full was definitely noticeable and really improved the shot.

To overpower the sun you gotta get up pretty close.
These were close, and also using high speed.

10/11/2010 01:37:52 PM · #120

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by vawendy:
I checked the metadata, and it fired. I also noticed there's a huge difference between the flash output on high speed and normal. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get bright sunlight to be less than 1/250. Does anyone use neutral density filters just to work with flash?

Yeah, at a certain point you need to either add more speedlights or go with a single bigger unit. Using the zoom on your flash will help with this some. I don't remember the exact distance on this shot, but the addition of my SB-900 zoomed @ 200 and fired at full was definitely noticeable and really improved the shot.

To overpower the sun you gotta get up pretty close.
These were close, and also using high speed.

Zooming is an interesting idea -- I'll have to try that!

I did eventually move closer:

10/11/2010 01:51:06 PM · #121

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by vawendy:
I checked the metadata, and it fired. I also noticed there's a huge difference between the flash output on high speed and normal. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get bright sunlight to be less than 1/250. Does anyone use neutral density filters just to work with flash?

Yeah, at a certain point you need to either add more speedlights or go with a single bigger unit. Using the zoom on your flash will help with this some. I don't remember the exact distance on this shot, but the addition of my SB-900 zoomed @ 200 and fired at full was definitely noticeable and really improved the shot.

To overpower the sun you gotta get up pretty close.
These were close, and also using high speed.

Zooming is an interesting idea -- I'll have to try that!

I did eventually move closer:

Did you have the flash on camera this whole time? You know you can avoid all that by having your flash off camera without compromising composition:)

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

10/11/2010 05:37:34 PM · #122

Originally posted by LVicari:

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by vawendy:
I checked the metadata, and it fired. I also noticed there's a huge difference between the flash output on high speed and normal. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get bright sunlight to be less than 1/250. Does anyone use neutral density filters just to work with flash?

Yeah, at a certain point you need to either add more speedlights or go with a single bigger unit. Using the zoom on your flash will help with this some. I don't remember the exact distance on this shot, but the addition of my SB-900 zoomed @ 200 and fired at full was definitely noticeable and really improved the shot.

To overpower the sun you gotta get up pretty close.
These were close, and also using high speed.

Zooming is an interesting idea -- I'll have to try that!

I did eventually move closer:

Did you have the flash on camera this whole time? You know you can avoid all that by having your flash off camera without compromising composition:)

I had my flash with me, but not any other equipment like stands or umbrellas. This guy was somewhat interested in being in the photo, but was a little hesitant, as well. I think it would have freaked him out a bit if I started setting up stands.

I suppose I could have set it on the ground and angled it... Hadn't thought about that.

JeffryZ

Nikon D80

10/15/2010 08:10:24 PM · #123

You guys have me at least thinking about using flash more on pictures. I was heading over to visit my brother and he wanted to stop and check out the pretty sunset. My SB-600 was in my suitcase but still decided to try to use the on-camera flash for fill. Settings were Aperature Priority and Rear Curtain Sync. Thanks for doing the thread! Lots of good examples and suggestions.

JeffryZ

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

10/26/2010 11:54:54 AM · #124

Just learned that Joe McNally is coming to San Diego (and Phoenix and Ft Lauderdale) with his Lighting tour so I signed up. Very excited to go try to learn something from the master.