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12/18/2006 05:19:14 AM · #1 |
this was written as a response to this thread
the article has been moved here...
Message edited by author 2007-04-02 09:32:45. |
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12/18/2006 05:51:23 AM · #2 |
Good article.
Originally posted by skiprow:
However, if you still aren’t satisfied, you could take the next step: buying professional equipment. I can tell you from experience, you don’t want to go here, unless you really want to be able to shoot Sports Illustrated quality images on a regular basis, and unless you are ready to pay whatever it takes to be able to do so. The camera bodies start close to $4000 (although you can usually find a decent used one for around $2500). The lenses start around $1200, and go up to about $6000. Just walking around, you’ll be lugging close to 20 pounds of gear, just to be ready for anything. |
For most sports the lenses are more important than the body. With the D70 and a fast long lens attached I can get 80% of what I could achieve with a D2h or D2x. It very much depends on the buffer you need and how good you can shoot with slow framerates. For motorcycle racing for example I can shoot them in single shot mode. There is no point in putting it in 3fps, because it makes me lazy and therefore miss the shot I really want.
I wait for example for the frontwheel to come up under acceleration and click as soon as I see the signs that it is happening. With 3fps I could not catch that, there is too much time between the shutter actuations. They go so freaking fast that I miss the right moment.
8 fps would solve it, but than it wouldn't be fun to do anymore. :)
Therefore I personally, as an 'amateur' would rather spent money on superquality lenses instead of the body. And maybe some money to bribe people to give me acces to the right spots. :)
There are also some semi-pro bodies (that are weathersealed if that's important to you.
Message edited by author 2006-12-18 10:53:01.
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12/18/2006 05:58:22 AM · #3 |
Very nice write-up and I really mean that. I almost have no suggestions but here are a few :)
1) 350 refers to the XT and 400 refers to the XTi.
2) You could also talk about the difference between PnS and DSLR maintenance.
3) I am not sure if you want to go into this much detail but there is the SLR-like PnSs like my old Nikon 5700. These have many SLR traits with very flexible, long reaching fixed lenses. May need a category of their own? |
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12/18/2006 06:06:15 AM · #4 |
Good work, Skip. I agree with TJ, though;
1. Point 'n Shoot "pocket cams"
2. Point 'n Shoot prosumer cams (look like miniature dSLR's)
3. Prosumer dSLR's
4. Professional dSLR's
I'd say anyone who wants to start exploring serious kidsports photography should begin at least in category 2...
R.
Message edited by author 2006-12-18 11:06:35.
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12/18/2006 02:48:16 PM · #5 |
Good post. Suggestions:
You talk about the 3 flavours... twice. I am prone to copy/paste syndrome so i'm not sure if that was intentional. I got a little confused the first time.
Re: Bear_music's
1. Pocket P&S (Elph, A-series etc)
2. Bridge P&S (powershot pro1, G7 etc)
3. Entry (350/XT etc)
4. Prosumer SLR (30D, D80)
5. Pro (1D~ etc)
Shooting kids with anything with lag is a drag... haha...
highly suggest at least an entry level SLR or u'll be ripping your hair out. fast lenses are also important. as well, learning on an entry lev SLR makes learning quite easy. |
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12/18/2006 03:40:07 PM · #6 |
I think there are 2 different types of DSLR groups. As well as 2 PnS groups.
1- PnS for pockets. $250 and under..for the commoners .
2- Enthusiasts PnS $300-500...good for paparazzi, and learning.
3- Semi-Pro DSLR. example ( Nikon 50 - D80) or $700-$1200) good for studio work , and quality is on par for photojournalism and web site presentation.
The 4th group represents the group of photographers who take the hobby and turn it into a profession. TIME , PEOPLE, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED etc. Major magazines here. Canon and Nikon for example, their DSLR's such as 30D and D200 are the minimums required . Now Cameras such as a D2X and EOS 1D simply give a photographer an advantage over someone with an entry level DSLR like the Rebel because the photographer has more control over his subjects and environments because of the versatility of the equiptment. An entry Level DSLR will give you less control, but just as good image quality for basic photography. |
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12/18/2006 04:01:35 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
The 4th group represents the group of photographers who take the hobby and turn it into a profession. TIME , PEOPLE, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED etc. Major magazines here. Canon and Nikon for example, their DSLR's such as 30D and D200 are the minimums required . Now Cameras such as a D2X and EOS 1D simply give a photographer an advantage over someone with an entry level DSLR like the Rebel because the photographer has more control over his subjects and environments because of the versatility of the equiptment. An entry Level DSLR will give you less control, but just as good image quality for basic photography. |
There are plenty of images being published that were shot with rebels, d70's etc, even point and shoot cameras. You look at images shot with 2.7 mp d1h's and 4 mp 1d's and d2h's all the time every day, maybe not thinking about it, but what I'm getting at is that
There is no minumum required lke a 30d or d200, though these are nice to use...
I think skip's grouping is pretty accurate, though the only reason I see a need for the true professional cameras is usually for sports. You can do most everything else you need with d70/30d etc and youll find a lot of professionals prefer those as walkaround cameras because they are smaller and lighter. |
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12/19/2006 12:53:03 AM · #8 |
thanks for the feedback! i have tweaked it a bit, and, as soon as i get a chance, i'm going to add a graphic of my 2x3 grid that highlights the differences between PnS/dSLR cameras and consumer/prosumer/professional levels.
if i hadn't worked my way up from a Kodak LS443, i could probably come off a bit arrogant when trying to explain to a parent why my photos turn out better than theirs. from where i sit, though, it is entertaining how many people buy into the hype that all they have to do is buy the latest camera, and they'll be able to automatically take the best photos ever...
Message edited by author 2006-12-19 05:53:38. |
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12/19/2006 02:00:11 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
thanks for the feedback! i have tweaked it a bit, and, as soon as i get a chance, i'm going to add a graphic of my 2x3 grid that highlights the differences between PnS/dSLR cameras and consumer/prosumer/professional levels.
if i hadn't worked my way up from a Kodak LS443, i could probably come off a bit arrogant when trying to explain to a parent why my photos turn out better than theirs. from where i sit, though, it is entertaining how many people buy into the hype that all they have to do is buy the latest camera, and they'll be able to automatically take the best photos ever... |
Now your just killing my new camera buzz dude! "-)
MattO
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12/19/2006 02:01:33 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Good article.
I wait for example for the frontwheel to come up under acceleration and click as soon as I see the signs that it is happening. With 3fps I could not catch that, there is too much time between the shutter actuations. They go so freaking fast that I miss the right moment.
8 fps would solve it, but than it wouldn't be fun to do anymore. :)
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I beg to differ 8FPS just plain rocks!
MattO
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12/19/2006 07:42:01 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by bassoon_boi:
1. Pocket P&S (Elph, A-series etc)
2. Bridge P&S (powershot pro1, G7 etc)
3. Entry (350/XT etc)
4. Prosumer SLR (30D, D80)
5. Pro (1D~ etc)
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I agree with this, the Nikon D40 is not in the same class as the 30D or D80. But it is a continuum, there are no clear borders--is the 5D pro or prosumer? people argue it both ways.
I'd also add a category 0 for the cheapest P&S, many cellphone cameras, etc. :-) And a note that cellphone/camera combinations are coming out with 2 or more megapixels and decent lenses.
Skip mentions that "Unfortunately, with dSLRs, there is just no one lens that will do everything". There is no P&S lens that will do everything either, but your alternative is buying a new camera. You often loose on the wide side, and sometimes on the telephoto.
I recently bought a P&S for my daughter. I found that some have fixed lenses while others have a focus motor. Some have variable aperture (but some of these may be only two choices?) and some have a fixed aperture. Some have optical and digital zoom, some have only digital zoom. I think there are different sensor sizes, but at the price and feature range I was looking at, they were all the same. ISO range matters also, but you'd have to compare the shots--even if you get ISO 800 on a P&S, is it noisier than 3200 on a DSLR? All these items were more important to me than "Megapixel count" (But all the cameras had at least 4MP).
Skip, I noticed that you did not discuss Megapixel count. I suggest that you explicitly point out that it doesn't matter for most pictures (so long as the camera is over 2MP or so). Also point out that optical zoom is different than digital zoom.
Message edited by author 2006-12-19 12:44:31. |
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12/19/2006 08:46:57 AM · #12 |
I like the re-edit and I think it is about as in-depth as you want to go. Do we really need to classify each camera out there? It is all relative anyway. Here are my new suggestions
1) You start out by referencing a forum posting about sports photography and then dive into a general perfect-camera-for-your-needs article. Pin down an audience. If this is really for parents at soccer games, then it needs to be heavy on the better PnS cameras and lighter on the pro level DSLRs. I am personally hoping that it stays more general, gets expanded slightly and added to the tutorial section.
2) Maybe dig in a little deeper in the PnS area. State that PnS cameras are sold depending on their size, shape and case color more than their image quality and features. People need to understand that there is a very broad range of PnS cameras out there and for most people, there is one that will perform better than any DSLR for them. Are these people really going to want to swap lenses to get the best shot?
Keep up the good work :)
Message edited by author 2006-12-19 13:48:29. |
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12/20/2006 09:08:03 AM · #13 |
After reading all these posts, I'm still unsure as to which PnS camera to ask my son get me for Christmas. I am looking at the Canon PowerShot A640.
//www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=145&modelid=14109
Can anyone tell me if that would be a good choice for a well-rounded PnS camera for under $400.00. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. |
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12/20/2006 10:19:38 AM · #14 |
This really is not the thread for this conversation but here comes an answer. I have not used the A640. It seems like a very nice camera but I am unsure if it worth the extra $210 over an A530. Their feature sets are very close with the A530 being a little faster, having a little bigger aperture and being smaller. The only real bonus I see for the A640 is the higher pixel count and the bigger, flip out LCD. Although it is arguable that 10MP (over the 5MP) is useless in a nearly all situations. Dealing with those huge files can be a pain also.
Message edited by author 2006-12-20 15:23:28. |
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12/20/2006 10:30:25 AM · #15 |
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12/20/2006 02:30:55 PM · #16 |
| Thank you both for your help. I'm leaning towards the S3 IS. I like its features and looks. I know its not as good as a SLR, but it is the closest I can get for now. Thanks again! |
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12/20/2006 05:07:24 PM · #17 |
Im still using my 2 year old Christmas present to take photos. Ive sold a handful and also won a ribbon. But things are different these days. I bought a prosumer PnS to learn photography. Now, since Nikon and Pentax both make affordable DSLR's, I think I wouldnt of asked for a $ 400 Sony. Id save $300 more and buy a D50. I can't shoot people or animal portraits with my Sony. I never leave the photoshoot feeling satisfied, but I do take many nightshots to compensate for low image quality.
I reccomend a prosumer PnS for the photography enthusiasts. But for a few hundred dollars more, you can really learn about photographs and cameras with an entry level SLR. Try the new Nikon D40 or 50. Maybe Ill get rid of my cable bill and do so myself !
Message edited by author 2006-12-20 22:10:15. |
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12/20/2006 05:25:20 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by tcocollins:
Thank you both for your help. I'm leaning towards the S3 IS. I like its features and looks. I know its not as good as a SLR, but it is the closest I can get for now. Thanks again! |
It is extremely flexible in use, but you give up just a little in noise/image quality, and you have no RAW option.
I'm planning to get the lens hood/filter adapter (to add a polarizer) and maybe the wide-angle lens, but it does almost everything at least adequately. prices are down, too : ) |
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12/21/2006 06:13:25 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Now, since Nikon and Pentax both make affordable DSLR's, I think I wouldnt of asked for a $ 400 Sony. Id save $300 more and buy a D50. |
You got me thinking and your right, if tcocollins wants to go to a DSLR someday, why not do it now. I looked at my camera too see what the current prices are and found that B&H has it for $600. They also have the D50 & D40 for $600 (what is up with that?). All come with the kit lens.
I say kick in a couple hundred of your own money and get a DSLR. |
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12/21/2006 11:23:54 AM · #20 |
| Pentax isD SLR goes for $399 ! Check out it's samples, great image quality. |
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12/22/2006 01:19:32 AM · #21 |
| Well, no turning back now. I went with the Canon PowerShot S3 IS before reading the last few posts. Money is an issue with Christmas here and all. Also, I feel that I will have a chance to learn from this camera with all its features, so maybe I'll be ready to advance to a DSLR next year. This seems to be a great PnS camera to have for work and play. I'll be using it in law enforcement for crime scene photos and motor vehicle accidents. Plus, maybe I can start getting some good enough photos to submit here in my off time. Well, I better get to reading the manuel so I can start shooting with it. Thanks again to everyone for your input and help. |
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