Booo Canon! - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR

07/18/2005 12:37:15 PM · #1

Back in early June I bought the Canon S2 IS. The other day I was taking some night shots with it and noticed a white spot in the same location on every shot. I did some troubleshooting and found out it was a possible dead spot on the sensor. I went back to the first shots I took with the camera and it has always been there.

I called Circuit City, where I bought the camera, and they would have been willing to swap it even though I did not buy the extended warranty and it has been 6 weeks since I purchased it. However, they do not have any in the state and donâ��t expect any soon so they suggested returning it to Canon.

To return it to Canon, I need to pay to ship it back to them, and they will repair it in 2-3 weeks. I can prove it was defective out of the box. Why do I have to pay for shipping, go up to 3 weeks without a camera and end up with a repaired camera? Canonâ��s answer is that sometimes things happen that are out of their control... Personally I think quality is in their control, but what do I know.

After a second phone call I did manage to get them to send me a shipping label so at least now I donâ��t have to pay for shipping.

I realize that mistakes happen, but when they do you need to fix them. Had Canon said they would send a next day air label out and then next day air a new camera back to me after they received my defective one and verified the problem I'd be posting how great Canon is right now. Sadly I can not do that. Note that Circuit City is willing to go above and beyond to rectify the situation when the problem in no way involves them. Yay Circuit City, Boo Canon.

To be continued...

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

07/18/2005 12:46:03 PM · #2

Hot pixels are a part of pretty much every sensor manufactured. Normally, they are "mapped out" prior to the camera being sold. Sometimes, however, one crops up between the mapping process and receipt by the consumer, or sometime soon thereafter. In this case, the manufacturer needs to remap the sensor. This is very likely what Canon will do with your cam, so very likely they will not disassemble it in any way, just run a software mapping tool on it.
It would be great if the camera manufacturers would provide the mapping function as an on-board function, but for some reason(s) they do not.

jmlelii

Nikon D850

07/18/2005 01:07:07 PM · #3

You cant really say "boo canon" and here is why.

1st, you didnt buy an extended warranty.
2nd, you were past your warranty when you noticed something was wrong with it.

Now regardless of WHEN the problem started occuring, it is up to the consumer to notice a problem, especially if it is occuring straight out of the box, and take care of the matter. You did not do this. You waited 6 weeks.

If the warranty is up, you are lucky they are fixing it for free.

Sorry, I can't really see how you can say Boo Canon.

fixedintime

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

07/18/2005 01:36:56 PM · #4

I say Boo Canon

1. A good company will fix the problem they created no questions asked - extended warrenty or no.

2. A poor company will hide behing the legalites - you didn't find the error we made quick enough.

3. A good company will go out of it's way to keep the customer happy - cannon didn't go far enough.

Circut City knew what to do - Canon did not. People will go back to Circut City with that kind of customer service, they may or may not go back to Canon and they will likely tell lots of people about the problem with Canon.

He may be lucky that Canon is going to fix it for free - but Canon will lose in the long run with an attitude like that.

07/18/2005 01:45:02 PM · #5

If there was a problem with a certain batch of sensors then I would expect a recall. If there's a problem with 1 sensor then I would say it's up to the consumer to point out the error. If the camera's only six weeks old then it's still under warranty. Most warranties require the customer to deliver the goods to the repair place at their expense.

The fact that Canon has sent a shipping label at the request of the customer goes to show that they will go above and beyond what the warranty says.

The warranty does not guarantee replacement with a new camera. Usually that happens after a few attempts to fix the problem and that's at the discretion of the manufacturer.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/18/2005 02:54:16 PM · #6

I paid $500 for a camera that should work fine. Why should I have to pay to send it back and then go without out for weeks? I know crap happens, but when crap happens and it's your fault you clean it up if you consider yourself a decent person.

Yes, Canon is sending me shipping labels. They are not next day or even priority, and they do not cover insurance. They are sending them to me postal mail so I won't get them for 3-4 days. It costs them all of $10 at the most for the labels. $10 is not above and beyond for a company Canon's size. I'll still need to insure the package because guess who is at fault if it gets damaged or lost and they only agreed to send me the labels after I called twice and asked to speak to a manager.

And most importantly, note that this problem was out of the box. THis was not a problem that came up over time. Canon's quality control failed to catch this. Had this been a problem that developed over time I would have no argument with how canon is resolving the issue. Things break and that's fine. This was broke from the beginning.

ALso, if it wasn't for Circuit City's willingness to go above and beyond, I probably would not be so dissapointed in Canon. If Canon wants to be an industry leader they need to stand behind their product a little better then this. You should never expect and/or allow your customers to be inconvienenced by your mistakes.

Thanks Kirbic for the info. THat's reassuring to know.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T20

07/18/2005 03:01:34 PM · #7

I can understand where you are coming from.

My 2-3 month old Plextor 716A DVD+-RW drive just stopped reading and writing DVDs. They will fix it but I have to pay shipping there, they will pay return shipping. When they get it, they will ship me a REFURBISHED unit.

Never liked getting a refurb. I "was" a fan of Plextor, but a unit that dies after a couple months isn't the "super quality" Plextor I thought they were.

Now how's this for a good experience: I had an elliptical trainer that broke after 1 year. It took a few calls to figure out that I had to call the manufacturer, rather than the seller. But when I contacted them, they sent me a new one, I didn't have to send the old one back. In fact, they never asked me for any proof of purchase! And I am sure it cost them $35 or more to ship the replacement, because it's heavy!

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

07/18/2005 04:23:28 PM · #8

Every warranty is different. Read the fine print or ask questions before you buy. If you don't like the warranty, don't buy the product.

Yes, this is all hind sight and we all know what that is, 20/20. ;)

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

07/18/2005 04:47:03 PM · #9

Originally posted by jmlelii:

You cant really say "boo canon" and here is why.

1st, you didnt buy an extended warranty.
2nd, you were past your warranty when you noticed something was wrong with it.

I think he said he only had the camera six weeks. That would be a pretty short warrantee. And I never buy extended warrentees. Electornics normally fail within the first year if they are going to fail. If a company does not stand behind their product then I stop buying from them.

And I know people have had problems with Nikon also, this is not a Canon vs. Nikon issue.

edit: sp

Message edited by author 2005-07-19 00:25:25.

petrakka

07/18/2005 05:08:30 PM · #10

Originally posted by jmlelii:

You cant really say "boo canon" and here is why.

1st, you didnt buy an extended warranty.
2nd, you were past your warranty when you noticed something was wrong with it.

I think paying for an extended warranty is the biggest load of b/s any company can dish out. Your product should be expected to work long and work right from the beginning. Most companies sell warranties just for additional income cuz they know like 90% of those purchased will never get used. You should not be expected to buy one, and you have every right to complain about a company if you didn't buy one.

Message edited by author 2005-07-18 21:08:59.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/18/2005 05:35:09 PM · #11

The extended warranties aren't from the manufacturer, they're from the store you buy the product or a third party.

danmurrelljr

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/18/2005 05:40:07 PM · #12

A hot or stuck pixel on a sensor is kind of a fact of life, it's gonna happen sooner or later. (A dead pixel wouldn't be white, it would be black by the way.) One pixel on a 5 megapixel sensor isn't a problem either really, it won't show up on a normal sized print. Also, just like the manufacturer can map them out in the software, you can do the same in Photoshop. Just record an action of you cloning the pixel, or using the healing brush on the pixel, and for any picture that you just can't stand knowing there's a hot pixel on it, run the action. Problem solved.

Dan

07/18/2005 05:55:51 PM · #13

If you bought a new car and it leaked oil would you just wipe off your garage floor everyday? All cars will leak oil sooner or later.

I know I could photoshop it out, but I shouldn't have to on a new camera. If white spots are normal and acceptable on Canon cameras I don't think I'll be buying Canon ever again.

07/18/2005 05:58:33 PM · #14

Originally posted by louddog:

On the same note, if your car leaked you'd take it to the dealer to have it fixed. You'd be given back a refurbished car not a new one.

07/18/2005 06:03:14 PM · #15

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by louddog:
If you bought a new car and it leaked oil would you just wipe off your garage floor everyday? All cars will leak oil sooner or later.

I know I could photoshop it out, but I shouldn't have to on a new camera. If white spots are normal and acceptable on Canon cameras I don't think I'll be buying Canon ever again.

On the same note, if your car leaked you'd take it to the dealer to have it fixed. You'd be given back a refurbished car not a new one.

But they'd give you a loaner car while they fixed it and they'd send me cookies or flowers and apologize for any inconvienence. And if the car needed to be shipped to Japan because that was their only repair shop, I probably would not have to pay the shipping.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/18/2005 06:09:58 PM · #16

Originally posted by louddog:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by louddog:
If you bought a new car and it leaked oil would you just wipe off your garage floor everyday? All cars will leak oil sooner or later.

I know I could photoshop it out, but I shouldn't have to on a new camera. If white spots are normal and acceptable on Canon cameras I don't think I'll be buying Canon ever again.

On the same note, if your car leaked you'd take it to the dealer to have it fixed. You'd be given back a refurbished car not a new one.

But they'd give you a loaner car while they fixed it and they'd send me cookies or flowers and apologize for any inconvienence. And if the car needed to be shipped to Japan because that was their only repair shop, I probably would not have to pay the shipping.

that's the dealer, not the manufacturer.

Now, Circuit City (the dealer in this case) said they would take back the camera for replacement. The problem was they had none in stock. Did they offer to get one?

saintaugust

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

07/18/2005 06:12:30 PM · #17

Originally posted by jmlelii:

i think the warranty from canon is 1 year, they had plenty of time to get the problem looked after.

but having worked in retail photo for a good number of years, i can say there's nothing worse than trying to explain to a customer why the manufacturer will not honour a warranty or it will take several weeks to fix.

danmurrelljr

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/18/2005 06:17:29 PM · #18

Originally posted by louddog:

Who you gonna go to? They all do it. :) Canon doesn't make the only sensors in the world that have hot pixels. Even your LCD monitor has an "acceptable" number of hot pixels before a manufacturer would replace it under warranty.

07/18/2005 06:27:24 PM · #19

I'm not going to argue if I should be happy about this or not or how this compares to the auto industry anymore.

I find it sad that Circuit City would work harder for me to fix a Canon problem then Canon will. That's all, I expected more from Canon.

Maybe I have higher expectations then some people... When I buy a new camera I expect it to work right. If it doesn't I expect the manufacturer do what ever it takes to fix the problem. Having to ship it myself and having to wait 2-3 weeks is not whatever it takes.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/18/2005 06:31:03 PM · #20

Originally posted by danmurrelljr:

Originally posted by louddog:
If you bought a new car and it leaked oil would you just wipe off your garage floor everyday? All cars will leak oil sooner or later.

I know I could photoshop it out, but I shouldn't have to on a new camera. If white spots are normal and acceptable on Canon cameras I don't think I'll be buying Canon ever again.

Who you gonna go to? They all do it. :) Canon doesn't make the only sensors in the world that have hot pixels. Even your LCD monitor has an "acceptable" number of hot pixels before a manufacturer would replace it under warranty.

If you are fine with problems like this, that's great. I have higher standards. Canon knows exactly what the problem is and they are going to fix it, so it does not meet their standards either. I hope too many people are not like you because if we all start finding things like this acceptable the world will go to crap.

Canon EOS-20D

07/18/2005 06:46:15 PM · #21

You sing praises for Circuit City but what exactly did they do for you? Say they would exchange it for you but oops, they couldn't? That's not exactly the kind of service I'd be running back for or using as a measure of standard against other companies.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/18/2005 06:57:00 PM · #22

Originally posted by mk:

Circuit city's retun policy is 14 days. My camera is about 50 days old and I refused the extended warranty yet they were still going to give me a new camera until they realized there are no cameras available in the state.

danmurrelljr

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/18/2005 07:03:13 PM · #23

Originally posted by louddog:

Of course Canon knows what the problem is and they will fix it by running whatever their mapping software is on the camera and map it out. Then they will send your camera back to you. They won't give you a brand new camera, and you won't get a camera that has 5 million perfect pixels. It's just a fact of these tiny sensors, some of them are bad. By everything I've ever read about it, they have acceptable fault levels in the factory. The bad pixels are mapped out. Cameras have a table inside their software that records all the bad pixels, and the camera simply ignores them when processing an image. For that pixel, it will do something like take an average of the neighbor pixels. This is exactly what you would be doing in Photoshop, by the way.

You can either be grumpy about it and say your camera is defective (which it isn't), and just send it in and wait however long it takes to get it back. Or, you can just quit worrying about it because like I said, you won't see one bad pixel out of 5 million on a print. Unless you make a huge print, in which case you would know ahead of time to use your simple action that took less than 30 seconds to create in Photoshop. If your sensor was peppered with them, that'd be a hassle. One? No way.