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11/11/2004 11:43:54 PM · #1 |
I don't know if it has been suggested but i would like to see a challenge with a one word description. ie laughter, hate, love, peace, light, family, mad or anything similiar.
I feel this would give an open licence on your interpretation of the challenge not how someone else interprets the challenge description.
This would be a good way to rid the site of those endless debates of the challenge description and the dreaded " does not meet the challenge" comments.
Just maybe this would enable people to think outside the square and not be penalised for it and would help others to be a little bit more open minded.
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11/12/2004 03:59:15 AM · #2 |
[As usual, speaking for myself, and not as a member of the SC, but just wanted to make that clear for this post.]
I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but this site is all about being a "challenge".
The problem with challenges like you propose is that they become "free studies". "Love"... people can love anything, so it would be a free study. "Hate"... people can hate anything, so it would be a free study. "Laughter"... anything can make somebody laugh, free study. "Mad"... anything could conceivably make somebody mad, free study...
Compare and contrast that to challenges like "Color Studio Portrait", "Team Sports Action", or "Feet", where there is a definite theme to the challenge. Part of submitting is "meeting the challenge"... and if you want to score well, meeting the challenge in a non-obscure way.
When I read things like "this would give an open licence on your interpretation of the challenge", I read that as "I don't want to have to try and come up with a creative shot that obviously meets the challenge. I just want to be able to submit a picture."
Everybody talks about being "open minded", "thinking outside the box", "alternative interpretations", etc. But if you look at the weekly challenges as an assignment given to you by a teacher to be graded on, or by an editor at the newspaper as part of a job... and they say "we're doing a story on teamwork in athletics, I want you to go get a photograph that really captures the essence of a team sport" and you come back with a picture of two people playing chess, would you really expect your editor (or teacher) to be impressed?
To me, this site is all about the challenge... and watering it down so it becomes "just another online photo contest" where you can submit whatever you want, whenever you want, is not something I'm looking forward to.
I say bring on the strongly-themed challenges that require creativity and the exploration of new techniques and development of skills... I know that I'm probably in the minority with this sentiment, but that is what drew me into this site. Until I found DPC, I never had the desire to participate in any other online photo contests, and to this day, I still haven't. Unfortunately (to me, at least), the fact that "Black & White II" was voted for (by a huge margin) as the next challenge shows that most people desire theme-free challenges -- it was the most "free study-ish" of the choices last week.
Message edited by author 2004-11-12 09:13:43. |
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11/12/2004 04:05:44 AM · #3 |
I agree, Eddy ... but I also can't help but be frustrated with either the wording of the descriptions and/or what seems like a 50/50 split on the interpretation of the decription (for example ... seems I missed the bus on the current calendar shot because my photo could be used for any month ... it doesn't depict a season)
My frustration is no ones fault ... but I still get frustrated. |
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11/12/2004 04:15:13 AM · #4 |
I think this challgen suggestion is a good idea.
Eddy, I totally disagree. First, Hopper makes a great point about the legalese style interpretation of the challenge descriptions.
Second, if there were such another "online photo" site, with the characteristics of DPC but not the limitations of the challenges, I'd probably be a member there. There isn't. I've tried everything I can find. I've been a long term member in photosig, photopoints, usefilm, betterphoto, etc. The other sites are either awkward, run on cliques and non-anonymous back-scratching, err...I mean voting. (well, DPC is becoming a lot more cliquish one with the concept of the "masters").
I think there's a need, despite all the sites out there. If I had the time, I'd start an alternative site to fill that need.
Please tell us where this alternative site is with the voting characteristics of a challenge but not the restrictions.
Again, I think this challgen suggestion is a good idea.
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11/12/2004 05:00:02 AM · #5 |
I do not think it is getting away from the themed challenges that people want, but getting away from being told that their image does not meet the preconceived ideas of meeting the challenge in the eye of certain voters. Even the most obvious and simple challenges get turned into a huge debate that is repetitive, boring, and sucks the creativity out of photographers. Specific themed challenges that are quite simplistic like egg, pencil, blue etc should also be quite easy and obvious whether it meets the challenge or not.
As for black and white.. the macro challenge is in essense a free study and that is on it's 10th reincarnation or something? Black and white is a photography staple, a well-used technique, and although it can cover a lot of subjects it still requires knowing when and how to use it effectively. Themes are great, but having a challenge explore a photography technique is just as important to learning as is meeting a challenge. |
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11/12/2004 05:23:04 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Unfortunately (to me, at least), the fact that "Black & White II" was voted for (by a huge margin) as the next challenge shows that most people desire theme-free challenges -- it was the most "free study-ish" of the choices last week. |
What was the final breakdown?
I didn't vote for this and would like to see where my choice ended. |
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11/12/2004 05:24:11 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by moodville:
...snip...
Themes are great, but having a challenge explore a photography technique is just as important to learning as is meeting a challenge. |
This sums it up for me perfectly. Techniques! |
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11/12/2004 09:53:08 AM · #8 |
Eddy i totally understand what you are saying and I agree that the challenge is what makes this site work so well. I don't want to take away that challenge just make it less confusing and i think you have exaggerate how a one worded challenge could be turned into a free study like how many landscape shots would you see in a challenge worded laughter.
And if people took their interpretation of that single word to far outside the box surely it would show in the scoring.
I also beleive one worded challenge can be a "strongly-themed challenges that require creativity and the exploration of new techniques and development of skills" it just takes the whole confusion out of the challenge description but most importantly it changes the mindset of voters who have a pre-conceived idea of what the challeng means to them to a mindset of this is how the photographer interprets the word.
[quote=moodville] I do not think it is getting away from the themed challenges that people want, but getting away from being told that their image does not meet the preconceived ideas of meeting the challenge in the eye of certain voters. Even the most obvious and simple challenges get turned into a huge debate that is repetitive, boring, and sucks the creativity out of photographers. Specific themed challenges that are quite simplistic like egg, pencil, blue etc should also be quite easy and obvious whether it meets the challenge or not.
I think you have understood where I am coming from. And stated a lot better then me.
Message edited by author 2004-11-12 14:54:01. |
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11/12/2004 12:58:48 PM · #9 |
I don't agree that challenges without supporting descriptions effectively lead to a Free Study.
The most successful entries will still be those which convey the themes effectively to the voters whilst also being excellent images. Entries where the interpretations are too wide will likely not score as highly with as many voters. It will self-regulate away from a Free Study.
I think most (though not all, just as it is now) voters would continue to hold challenge theme in mind whilst voting.
The difference would be that interpretation could be more fluid. Provided the photographer felt happy that their image fit the theme and were happy to leave it to the voters to decide, the arguments over semantics would at least be reduced.
I also prefer people not to just push challenges into Free Study, for example in the current Calendar challenge, I am scoring more highly for images that I can a) visualise in a Calendar and b) have something about them which links them to the chosen month.
Where it comes down to TECHNIQUE challenges though I don't think there needs to be a subject specified on top of the technique itself.
Message edited by author 2004-11-12 17:59:57.
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11/12/2004 01:40:05 PM · #10 |
What about the challenges we've had, like 'indecision' 'hope' 'strength' or 'letting go'? I think that both techniques and more abstract concepts are great challenges - but I also think that dpc does a good job of using both of them - possibly a bit technique-heavy, but it's not completely one-sided.
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11/12/2004 01:55:23 PM · #11 |
My 2 cents -
Maybe you can have more challenges going at the same time. One that is very Theme or Title specific and one for people like me that want to learn techniques, and are not so worried with the title and theme. This way people who want to vote for Theme or title based photos can do that, and those who want to be snap happy and learn, can.
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11/12/2004 11:11:57 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Karalew:
My 2 cents -
Maybe you can have more challenges going at the same time. One that is very Theme or Title specific and one for people like me that want to learn techniques, and are not so worried with the title and theme. This way people who want to vote for Theme or title based photos can do that, and those who want to be snap happy and learn, can. |
I don't want to do away with the technique type challenges I think they are great and have helped me enormously what my idea was is to change the thinking of people to understand that every photographer see's things in their own mind and to be able to display it with out the ridicule of the " does not meet challenge".
The main problem that i see is that people are judging and voting on challenges with different interpretations from the challenge description and not voting on the merit of the photo and the photographers own meaning of the challenge.
Anyway its hard for me to explain in this context ( due to my poor literacy skills) but i strongly believe the idea has merit. |
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